Vinyl VS CD.....

naturallight

Now, i'm NOT here to start a war..LOL I have used records for ever. I tend to beleive Vinyl is better. But with tube cd player tube preamps...not sure..at least on classic rock, your going to get alot more. I have 10 crates of records, they have all been over played, they have had "Last" and diskwasher stuff thrown at then for years, but at a point..there just over played. I have replaced most of that with CD's..and hard to find titles at that.

I'm thinking of pulling my Technics SL-1600 out of the closet, throw a $150 new cartrige in it. But use it for just "classical" music. Buy nothing but 180gram stuff. Just try and build up a classical recording Vinyl collection.

Dose this make any sence? or should i just keep going with CD's...The cost of good vinyl..not cheap..plus all the cleaners and what not. On classical...may make a difference...Rock..not so sure it's woth the effort anymore.

cnh

I'd say listen and do what you will. The guys with the $10K+ turntable gear will be around soon to support you in your possible return to vinyl. Nothing wrong with vinyl.

Debates really center, I suspect, on SACD vs. vinyl. Since those formats are high resolution. So 5K+ SACD player or as much or more invested in vinyl.

Let's just say you won't regret whatever you do if it sounds good!

cnh

jimbo1421

naturallight wrote: »

I have 10 crates of records, they have all been over played, they have had "Last" and diskwasher stuff thrown at then for years

Maybe they just need cleaning. I grew to dislike the Discwasher; the stylus always seemed gunked up after a few plays. A vacuum type like the Nitty Gritty, or even the budget minded Spin Clean like I have can make a huge difference.

Jim

naturallight

Well ..I'd like to say yes a good cleaning..of course can't hurt. But this stuff..if it's been played once..it's been played a 1000 times...LOL There just all over played..too may scratches, too much noise at this point...you just can't keep playing these records forever...there is just nothing left in the groves...LOL

mhardy6647

Demand for serious music (Classical, Baroque, Romantic, opera, etc.) in any format, including vintage LP, is pretty limited. Still not uncommon to find boxes full on the "Yankee Swap Pile" at our New England town "dump" (transfer station). By the nature of the recordings and the folks that tend to buy them, the albums tend to be in very good to excellent condition. Many are very well recorded, mastered, and pressed.

If you're in New England, I have more than a few boxes if you'd like to scrounge through them some time.

jimbo1421

naturallight wrote: »

There just all over played..

Well, if you insist.... But if you have been playing them on a Technics SL-1600 then they are probably in good condition under the dirt. A good turntable with a good stylus won't wear out records. Scratches, those clicks that repeat with each revolution, of course cannot be fixed. Random clicks and crackles are most likely dirt specks. That worn sound could easily be Diskwasher or other cleaning fluid residue. My mother's LPs had this and the Spin Clean cleared up a lot of it.

Jim

doctor r

Some might be salvagble with deep cleaning. I have some with a lot of albums with visual surface scratches that came back well after cleaning, then I have some that are as you said over played and ...........
Nice Classical recordings are not hard to find for cheap or free. I just picked up a collection of 150 LPs for $100 that are mint. The gentleman had taken excellent care of them. Classical music was not usually overplayed so most of the vinyl is in good shape even at thrift stores and goodwill. I even got some mint Opera albums in my recent purchase that might make it to goodwill for someone to find in excellent condition.

I love both my vinyl and my CDs.

PolkieMan

Yea I got a Spinclean, I thought my records were clean using the ole Discwasher till I used it.

jimbo1421 wrote: »

Maybe they just need cleaning. I grew to dislike the Discwasher; the stylus always seemed gunked up after a few plays. A vacuum type like the Nitty Gritty, or even the budget minded Spin Clean like I have can make a huge difference.

Jim

naturallight

Thanks for the info. I will try the Sin Cleaner. Seems to work really well for the price, and may salvage alot of the old records.

PolkieMan

Did you get one ? If so did you like the results?

naturallight wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I will try the Sin Cleaner. Seems to work really well for the price, and may salvage alot of the old records.

F1nut

I spin clean my CD's and SACD's every time I push play.

there is just nothing left in the groves...

More truth to that than you probably realize. Every time a record is played, it loses a little more of the high frequencies...nature of the beast.

soundfreak1

All records deterriorate over time ( at a point) and do lose some dynamics. However i would have said records are far better untill i hot my first DAC put a good outboard DAC in your system and the gap closes greatly.

SCompRacer

Record wear is in the hands of the end user. The type of stylus used, accurate and lower stylus pressure, cleaning and keeping them clean and proper setup is needed to keep from carving the groove deeper or wider. I use an Onzow Zerodust to clean the stylus which is just a blob of soft plastic. If I were cutting my records to nothing, I would expect to see traces of it as dust on the record or on the blob when I clean the stylus. If the grooves really did melt and reform like some folks think, one play would be it for the record. Or maybe they do melt and re-form perfectly due to memory cells embedded in the vinyl.:cheesygrin:

As to what is better, I believe much depends on what you are playing either media with, through or on. That would include turntables, arms, cartridges, phono stages, digital players, DAC's and sampling rate. I enjoy both here, though vinyl usually gets the nod for sounding better.

EDIT: Oh, and the weight of the record doesn't mean it will sound better. You get more heft, maybe more warp resistance but SQ is all in the mastering. I have some 120 gram vinyl that still sounds fantastic. Also, thicker records may require changing VTA, or vertical tracking angle. Many turntables do not have adjustments for you to change the height of the tonearm. Some cartridges/stylus are more sensitive to VTA than others.

naturallight

No, i have not bought anything yet. My wife is in the middle of redoing the house, so my stereo needs are FAR on the bottom of the list. Unfortunatly, it's just not a 100 buck record cleaner, I need a new cartrage, all my alingment tools seem to be gone along with my record clamp( altho the wife claims she knows nothing about it...LOL)

So i'm looking at an easy $400, which to the wife equates to a new arm chair..LOL So this may not happen for a number of months yet. Plus i've been told milk crates will not cut it...LOL So i also need to find some Piece of furnature, that will fit records.
She kind of takes all the fun out of this...LOL

heiney9

I have heard superb vinyl rigs and it can trumph digital based on equal recording quality of the source material.

But, it's expensive to get into and the care and feeding of the vinyl is a NUMERO UNO priority. It becomes a ritualistic process and unless you are dedicated to the ritual of cleaning, preserving and hunting the best pressings, you'll never realize the maximum performance.

The OP's rig isn't even in the same city as the ballpark to achieving analog results that can compete with digital.

Myself personally with my slightly obesessive/compulsive behavior in audio choose not to go down the vinyl path, but not because it can't be superb, but because the ritual, the hunt and the execution would be way too much time and $$$ invested.

H9

heiney9

soundfreak1 wrote: »

All records deterriorate over time ( at a point) and do lose some dynamics. However i would have said records are far better untill i hot my first DAC put a good outboard DAC in your system and the gap closes greatly.

Not if properly cared for from day one and properly pressed from the plant. A well cared for piece of vinyl can last as long or longer than a cd.

H9

naturallight

Unfortunatly everything H9 says is true. Vinyl is a bad Mistress...you have to go thru the whole deal of cleaning, prep..and so on. Plus the $$$ can be insane. My Technics 1600...is all i'm dealing with, and would end up with a Grado, of some sort (just because i like them). The only furture upgrade i would do is to replace my Adcom GFP- 400 with a GFP- 565, for the phone section. I'm not going with outboard stuff or anything else.

The only thing this will buy me is to be able to play the old recordings i have, that i can't find on CD. So i get to listen to that music again. It is not the best solution..and far from perfect. But what i can afford to throw at vinyl.

heiney9

naturallight, if you enjoy it, go for it.

H9

doctor r

Long ago jumped over the cliff with my vinyl and I love it. Still spinning ones I bought in the early 70's that continue to have great dynamics. I have a digital source that is not lacking, but good vinyl through tubes is special. You should try it H9 I'm sure we can find medication for your OCD before any major breakdown would occur.:biggrin:

naturallight

Well i have used vinyl since the 60's.....I love it. BUT...I have used every product that was out there. I can't tell you how many gallons of Discwasher stuff i've gone thru...LOL I even had the Zero state gun. The only product i thought really did anything was the "Last" stuff..It did take out alot of the backround scratchy mess and may have fixed some scratches. But the cost even back then was not cheap, and did not do a real lot of records. Plus it would only last for X amount of plays.

I would not even consider CD's..until..i guess it was the 90's..when you just could not buy vinyl any more. What was pressed at that time...was pretty much junk. Came with it's own scratches right out of the unopened package...and half of them were warped due to the amount of vinyl they even bothered to press them out of.

Pretty much depressing for me. At that point i had to start buying CD's...

SCompRacer

naturallight wrote: »

all my alingment tools seem to be gone ...

You can download protractors from the vinylengine. Hopefully they have a gauge or scale on there that you can measure after printing so you are sure it printed to scale correctly.

doctor r

VPI16.5 RCM, Audio Intelligence Vinyl Solutions three part cleaning with Enzyme, and a lot of time and patience has really revived my new vinyl acquisitions. I have come to believe that a lot of the pops on what appear to be visually nice albums is mold. I was reluctant to believe until I tried it on my MoFi DSOTM that I had babied since I bought new when it first issues and had more pops than Orville Redenbacker. After many different cleanings I finally used an enzyme cleaner and now it is very quiet. Some vinyl is just trashed, but others can be reclaimed. It initially takes a lot of time and patience, but once they are clean I do not repeat the process when they are played. The "to be cleaned" pile is large and does not diminish quickly, but on the good side the Zero Stat actually now has a true use since the vacuum RCM does generate static.

madmax

heiney9 wrote: »

Myself personally with my slightly obesessive/compulsive behavior in audio choose not to go down the vinyl path, but not because it can't be superb, but because the ritual, the hunt and the execution would be way too much time and $$$ invested.

H9

Slacker

naturallight

Well, i have a set budget for this, so a spin clean, Grado..maybe a bottle of "last"...maybe i can salvage 100 records out of this, that i think are playable. To be blunt, most of my vinyl was rode hard and put away wet...LOL
I would like to throw more money at this, but then again, i'd like to throw more money at all the stereo stuff.
I would love a set of the biggest Polk SDA's...but thats not going to happen. I'd like a set of Infinity Kappa 9's..which is saw for sale for 1200 bucks...almost thought about hocking stuff for them.
But really....the company is defunk..your hard pressed to find parts for it ..even if the guy said there perfect.
They eat amps for breakfest...not sure you could even run them with 2 Adcom 555's in bridged mode as mono blocks..probably blow fuses.

So....in the end..it is what it is..what you can afford...and if you don't think it sounds too bad..then i guess your ahead of the game.

pearsall001

I'm just too damn lazy to ever consider making the move to vinyl. Not saying it can't sound good but man oh man does the rabbit hole open up big time. Once in, you aren't getting out without dropping some serious coin to get it to sound good. I kiss my Sonos system everynight.

EndersShadow

My dad's got a bunch he let me look at, but to be honest I dont want to invest in a good TT right now since I have a mostly HT setup and no dedicated 2 channel room, or even room on my rack for a TT.

Its in good condition and will stay that way so I will take it off his hands when I can finally get a nice stereo system together.

That and just hypnotize John so he gives me his stuff for free :razz: :biggrin:

gudnoyez

I have kept my vinyl that I bought new since the 70's, in good shape all of it was put promptly on a cassette and saved in plastic jackets once the tape wore out it was rerecorded. I have had people over in the past that would say Huh you still spin Lp's a little behind the times arent we? I would say well lots of that stuff is hard to find on Cd and sound just as good.
I dont spin Vinyl everyday but the ritual is what I enjoy, kickin back cleaning a few and playing some music.

soundfreak1

Not getting into who's .... Is bigger for 1/3 or less of what it would take to have decent vinal sound you can have great cd sound. Just saying.

doctor r

You are correct Soundfreak1. I have just about 1/3 the cost in my cdp as my analogue and it is 90% there. That extra 10 has to have a little passion and a lot of insanity to pursue. It is not a competition it is just a parallel universe. I think the fact that I was raised on vinyl and avoided the first wave of cd certainly placed a permanent bias in my mind (though supported by my ears).

naturallight

Well thats the problem with this hobby..if you can really call it that..it tends to become a rolling ball of who has the best, the biggest...my sound is better then your sound. So you have to draw the line someplace..pretty much on the pocketbook....and say...yeah, ok this works for me...don't care if joe blow spent 1K on speaker cables.

Now I could never bother to make tapes of the vinyl...LOL I thought it would be around forever..once I trashed a record by overplaying it...I can just go buy another. Hey at 5 bucks...who cares. But was not to be. I'm also a musicain..so i overplayed alot of stuff to listen to the guitar parts and crap just trying to learn the licks. Also had a lot of party stuff...so...yeah..the vinyl was not treated as gold.

So again..it is what it is. If i can salvage some of what is probably 1000+ records...then fine. If not, well, they had a great run.

soundfreak1

Truth be known i mever liked cd's untill a few months ago when i got my first DAC. Now its a new ballgame!