Phono stage question (w/ Dared SL2000a)

dromunds
dromunds Posts: 10,009
edited August 2012 in 2 Channel Audio
I will soon be receiving my first tube pre-amp (Dared SL2000a). I will also be playing vinyl and wondering if anyone can suggest a nice phono stage. Budget is under $500. I've always had a SS preamp (now using a HK Citation Eleven) so the tube world is all new to me. I have a Denon DL110 cartridge and I'm just about to rehab a Thorens TD150 TT with a Grace 707 arm. Amp is a SAE Mark IIIa (SS). SDA 2a's. Thanks for your help.
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    edited July 2012
    Anybody have any opinions on the Pro-ject tube box 2? Cambridge audio 651p? Prometheus Audio? Musical Fidelity VLPs? Any others? What about interconnects for the Dared? Thanks much.
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited July 2012
    With that budget I would go with a Jolida JD-9 all day long. You can get a new-stock one for around $500 or get a modded one for around the same price used.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2012
    I think you want to be careful about having too many tubes in the chain, not necessarily a bad thing, but getting another tube stage to "gel" can be endless work but also fun. That said I have heard great things about the Project tube box and their support has been really good. DKG999 uses one with his Rogue tube pre-amp.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,244
    edited July 2012
    My JD-9 works very well with my Dared SL-2000 the JD-9 is very easy to use as well as upgrading the output caps for not much $$. Mine is here to stay for now..
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    edited July 2012
    heiney9, I sent you a pm.
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  • Upstatemax
    Upstatemax Posts: 2,670
    edited July 2012
    I use the Cambridge 640p with my Dared SL2000A and I love the sound.

    I guess the 651P is the replacement to the 640P and the only major change is they added a power button...
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited July 2012
    Look at Sim Audio Moon offerings.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    edited July 2012
    Thanks so much for the suggestions. Some of my current phono preamp options include:
    Trigon Vanguard II -$300ish
    Cambridge 651p - $200 ish?
    PS Audio GCPH - $500ish
    Jolida JD 9 -modded w/ 2.0 mfd Audience teflon caps, Sovtek 12AX7LPS tubes, etc. - $600 ish
    Moon LP5.3 - $800ish

    Several of these are above my budget. Assuming I could even scrape a few extra bucks together, anybody have any thoughts on what would make most sense in my system (system listed in prior posting)? I really appreciate all the thoughtful comments.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited July 2012
    There should be a cheaper Moon....mine was $500 retail, but i got it "open-box" for $285. LP3 IIRC?

    http://www.simaudio.com/moonlp3.htm
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    edited July 2012
    Steveinaz: I noticed Moon had a LP3, and now a 110LP. Where did you get your LP3? Any complaints or weaknesses?
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited July 2012
    From Music Direct under their demo/open box tab. It was brand new--never opened...LOL. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but all reviews were very positive. Handles MC/MM cartridges.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited August 2012
    I'm in a similar predicament. Did a few impulse buys on the Dared 2000a, and I also grabbed a turntable. Did a bit of research and decided to get a Bellari VP-530 phono stage. Didn't really think about getting the tubes to gell between them, tbh. Found it for $339. Was thinking of upgrading the power supply on it with a Welbourne, and then of course need some decent cables and a power cord. Then I started asking myself, why the heck am I doing this? Forget about the tubes, but If I pay for the Dared 2000a, the power cord for the Dared, the Bellari, the Bellari power supply, the power cord for the Bellari, and another pair of MIT's to run the phono stage into my pre, then I have easily surpassed the cost of the Dared 2000 instead of the 2000a with the integrated phono stage, and probably even the higher end Dared MC-7p. Why would one want a separate phono stage and pre versus an integrated one, when it means more interconnects, power supplies, etc.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited August 2012
    Dynavector P-75, you can thank me later
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited August 2012
    Well, I have the Bellari already purchased, will probably arrive today, so may as well give it a try. As an alternative, I still don't understand why I wouldn't want the phono stage built right into the preamp, like the other Dareds?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited August 2012
    nspindel wrote: »
    As an alternative, I still don't understand why I wouldn't want the phono stage built right into the preamp, like the other Dareds?

    While convenient, it all depends on the quality of the phono stage.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited August 2012
    Well, that's what I'm asking :) Has anyone had any experience with either of the Dared preamps with a phono stage built in. There's the SL2000, minus the "a", and there's the higher end MC-7P. I've read in other places that people love the 7P, especially with a bit of modding:

    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/205056-dared-mc-7p-upgrades.html

    http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1253132946&openflup&7&4#7
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited August 2012
    I think the 7P is probably a better pre than the 2000 if you are looking for max performance for a phono section, but that's simply based on reviews and looking at the build.

    Can't say how it would compare to the 2000a w/the Bellari. These are the decisions that you either love exploring in this hobby or the one's that can be a little frustrating.

    H9

    P.s. I got your PM and I will respond when I get a chance to give you a good time to chat if you still want to.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited August 2012
    If it were me, I'd keep the Dared SL2000A and build a Haggerman phono pre-amp. The one Rich built was simply beautiful and I'm sure sure he and Carl and a few others can give you an idea of the performance.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited August 2012
    Per the previous post:
    www.hagtech.com

    Even the low-priced, soiled state Bugle is a fine performer for the $.
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