Choosing a new sub
Milsivich
Posts: 43
Alright, so I'm thinking of adding a new subwoofer to my system and I wanted some input!
Setup:
~Pair of LSi9's
~Parasound 2100 preamp
~Parasound 2125 amp
~MicroPRO 3000
~digital in from Musicstreamer II
Music I listen to:
~30% "Classical" (usually Romantic to contemporary, usually works written for strings, including piano)
~40% "Popular" Alternative / Folk (still mostly acoustical instrumentation, mainly strings and vocals)
~20% Hip/Hop and Electronic music (this is the part I've been having trouble with, see below)
~10% Other
The current sub I have been using, as you can see, is the MicroPRO 3000 (I also tried out a 2000 for some time). I honestly don't know what the problem is, but I went through two 2000s and then this 3000 thinking there was something broken, but now I'm starting to suspect they are just bad subs because they ALL had the same problem; they cannot handle bass-hits, even at low volumes (total system below 80dB, sub at volume 9/40). The sub makes this horrendous sound like it's bottoming out, the kind of sound that really freaks you out. At first I thought my amp was defective, but after going through 3 separate subs from the MicroPRO series, I'm starting to think they are just lacking.
The MicroPRO DOES work pretty well for my acoustical music needs, but that's mostly because it can handle smooth continuous sounds just fine. The problem really comes when I try and listen to anything with a tight bass drum or a synthesized beat. I know the problem isn't my source because the sub exhibits identical symptoms when I run it from a turntable. What I have done to alleviate the problem some is just turn the cutoff waaay low (30Hz, which is actually the LSi9 -3dB point), but really the only way to get the horrifying clunking to go away is to keep the sub's volume and cutoff levels so low that it's not really doing anything but grumble every once in a while.
So, does anyone have any recommendations for a subwoofer that can handle a beat? I'll probably keep this one around because when it does sound pretty good for about 80% of the music I play, but I basically have to just turn it off for the other 20%.
Thanks a lot!
Setup:
~Pair of LSi9's
~Parasound 2100 preamp
~Parasound 2125 amp
~MicroPRO 3000
~digital in from Musicstreamer II
Music I listen to:
~30% "Classical" (usually Romantic to contemporary, usually works written for strings, including piano)
~40% "Popular" Alternative / Folk (still mostly acoustical instrumentation, mainly strings and vocals)
~20% Hip/Hop and Electronic music (this is the part I've been having trouble with, see below)
~10% Other
The current sub I have been using, as you can see, is the MicroPRO 3000 (I also tried out a 2000 for some time). I honestly don't know what the problem is, but I went through two 2000s and then this 3000 thinking there was something broken, but now I'm starting to suspect they are just bad subs because they ALL had the same problem; they cannot handle bass-hits, even at low volumes (total system below 80dB, sub at volume 9/40). The sub makes this horrendous sound like it's bottoming out, the kind of sound that really freaks you out. At first I thought my amp was defective, but after going through 3 separate subs from the MicroPRO series, I'm starting to think they are just lacking.
The MicroPRO DOES work pretty well for my acoustical music needs, but that's mostly because it can handle smooth continuous sounds just fine. The problem really comes when I try and listen to anything with a tight bass drum or a synthesized beat. I know the problem isn't my source because the sub exhibits identical symptoms when I run it from a turntable. What I have done to alleviate the problem some is just turn the cutoff waaay low (30Hz, which is actually the LSi9 -3dB point), but really the only way to get the horrifying clunking to go away is to keep the sub's volume and cutoff levels so low that it's not really doing anything but grumble every once in a while.
So, does anyone have any recommendations for a subwoofer that can handle a beat? I'll probably keep this one around because when it does sound pretty good for about 80% of the music I play, but I basically have to just turn it off for the other 20%.
Thanks a lot!
Post edited by Milsivich on
Comments
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Did it sound like it was coming from the dust cap?
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Ehhh I'm not sure. I haven't been around subs enough to know all the things that can go wrong. It sounds like something between a clunk and a big wobbly sheet of metal (if you can imagine that). The reason I'm kind of upset is because it's supposed to be a 1200 watt sub, but it makes this sounds at volumes just above speaking levels. I can't even get the system to "listening levels" when the sub is hooked up. My system sounds amazing to me, if not for this sub. Honestly, I'm ready to move on though because I have spent literally over 5 months going back and forth with customer service. The customer service was great, don't get me wrong--those guys were seriously helpful. But ultimately I have a subwoofer that can't even come close to pulling it's weight, so I'm kinda over the MicroPRO series.
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They are small subs with small cone area. They are going to have a hard time reproducing that "hit" or "slam" fell I think you're looking for.
I don't know your budget or size constraints but moving up to a sealed 15" or even 18" sub might just be what you need.
Here are a couple recommendations for you:
Rythmik F15 $974
HSU Research ULS-15 $1099
If those are too big or expensive then the SVS SB-12 or Emotiva Ref-12 would be good alternatives. Also keep your eyes open for deals on Audiogon. -
Ehhh I'm not sure. I haven't been around subs enough to know all the things that can go wrong. It sounds like something between a clunk and a big wobbly sheet of metal (if you can imagine that). The reason I'm kind of upset is because it's supposed to be a 1200 watt sub, but it makes this sounds at volumes just above speaking levels. I can't even get the system to "listening levels" when the sub is hooked up. My system sounds amazing to me, if not for this sub. Honestly, I'm ready to move on though because I have spent literally over 5 months going back and forth with customer service. The customer service was great, don't get me wrong--those guys were seriously helpful. But ultimately I have a subwoofer that can't even come close to pulling it's weight, so I'm kinda over the MicroPRO series.
I've owned all the micropro's and all seem to make a cone rattle noise above 80hz. Anything 80 and below It's fine. With that being said I could play the sub on max and it would sound just as good and clean as if it was at half the volume. The amplifier is made to match perfectly with that driver and must have some kind of limiter. 1200 watts is required because of its small footprint and you can only get so much out of a sub that's limited by its size. For the price you can do much better with an I.D. Company.
You could get a Epik Empire for half the price of the 4000 and it will run circles around it. Great mid bass slam and it will extend much deeper. For music and smaller HT rooms I did love the SQ I heard from the micropro series. -
I've owned all the micropro's and all seem to make a cone rattle noise above 80hz. Anything 80 and below It's fine. With that being said I could play the sub on max and it would sound just as good and clean as if it was at half the volume.
This is what confuses me.. the sound I get is NOT subtle. It is the kind of sound that sticks with you, particularly if you are a sound person. We are not talking about a subtle after-taste on the soft-pallet, I'm talking about a heart-stopping, smack you in the face with a 2X4 type of sound, the kind that makes you panic and fumble for the big red button that makes it all stop. Okay so maybe I'm exaggerating just a little bit, but I mean it when I say this sound is VERY obvious.
I still can't figure out if there is something wrong with my sub or not simply because all 3 I have had so far have had this problem, but when you say "...I could play the sub on max and it would sound just as good and clean as if it was half the volume" it makes me think there is something abnormal with my situation that 5 months of forums, troubleshooting, customer service, and replacement hasn't been able to solve. So far my experience with the MicroPRO series is that they are completely dysfunctional for anything but steady tones at an reasonably loud (80dB or higher) listening level. -
They are small subs with small cone area. They are going to have a hard time reproducing that "hit" or "slam" fell I think you're looking for.
I don't know your budget or size constraints but moving up to a sealed 15" or even 18" sub might just be what you need.
Here are a couple recommendations for you:
Rythmik F15 $974
HSU Research ULS-15 $1099
If those are too big or expensive then the SVS SB-12 or Emotiva Ref-12 would be good alternatives. Also keep your eyes open for deals on Audiogon.
Great, thanks for the comment! I'll definitely look into these -
It really sounds as if something is wrong.
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I would guess there is an issue with your sub, or the signal it is receiving. Sounds like it is bottoming out to me.
Is the sound like a Clack or smacking sound? Can you feel air coming out of the sub anywhere? -
Sorry to hear about your issues with the Micropro. As far as a recommendation for a musical sub, I can whole-heartedly recommend an REL sub. I'm running a R-328 and it's by far the most musical and natural sounding sub I've heard. It integrates with other speakers better than any other sub I've tried. Keep in mind these subs are not going to wow you with their slam factor or shake the rafters, but if you are looking for a natural, musical sounding sub that is going to fill in that bottom part of the frequency range, I can't think of a better sub.
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Sorry to hear about your issues with the Micropro. As far as a recommendation for a musical sub, I can whole-heartedly recommend an REL sub. I'm running a R-328 and it's by far the most musical and natural sounding sub I've heard. It integrates with other speakers better than any other sub I've tried. Keep in mind these subs are not going to wow you with their slam factor or shake the rafters, but if you are looking for a natural, musical sounding sub that is going to fill in that bottom part of the frequency range, I can't think of a better sub.
What kinds of music do you listen to? I have found in my own experience that some subs cater to some demands beautifully and completely fail to keep up with other demands -
Everything and I mean everything except for rap and typical top-40 mainstream crap that's out these days. It sounds awesome on every style I've played on it including heavy metal with double bass and bass heavy R&B tracts. I can't tell you how it sounds with rap though or the top 40 garbage as I refuse to soil my system with that crap ;-).
