Paypal: Verify or not?

apc

Had a seller question my unverified paypal account recently. Never happened before and I recall not wanting paypal to have too much info such as my bank acct data. Bad enough tagging a credit card to it, but at least the cc company could help if a dispute ever came up.

What are your thoughts on having a verified paypal account? Does it really matter that much?

heiney9

Really depends on the seller/buyer. Some will only deal with verified accounts. It's up to you but I have my account and my work address (where everything is sent) verified so I don't run into that problem. There is less buyer/seller recourse for an un-verified account according to Paypal/Ebay.

I honestly don't see the paranoia about "paypal having too much information" that information (the very information you don't want to give) is available if someone wants it bad enough. For me, it's part of doing business on the internet. I don't even think twice about it anymore.

apc

Would you mind expanding on, "There is less buyer/seller recourse for an un-verified account according to Paypal/Ebay."? And I suppose you are right about being paranoid. Just seems you should try to limit your exposure whenever possible. I don't buy or sell a ton online, but perhaps I need to rethink this if it could help me if there were ever a dispute.

heiney9

You'd have to read the user information at Ebay/Paypal. I haven't read through it all in a long time so I can't recall specifics. If it doesn't matter to you, then don't get verified. Just realize if you want to purchase something and they require a "verified" account you can't purchase it. Also when selling something, buyers may prefer a "verified" user so they might not bid on your item.

It's actually pretty simple in that regard. As a seller you may not even be able to calculate how many buyers passed on your item because you weren't verified. I'd probably guess the percentage is smaller. I look more at history of the seller and feedback than verified, unless they are a new seller personally when buying. I have also bought from sellers who said they required a 'verified' account. For a long time my work address was "unverified" and I still bought from sellers that said "verified" only. But I have a great track record as well as my account has been active for 6-7 years, etc.

Hope this helps

H9

maximillian

heiney9 wrote: »

I honestly don't see the paranoia about "paypal having too much information" that information (the very information you don't want to give) is available if someone wants it bad enough. For me, it's part of doing business on the internet. I don't even think twice about it anymore.

Is verification for address or bank account? I remember having to verify my address but now Paypal wants me to verify my bank account. The later I will simply not do. I do not trust Paypal enough with access to my bank account. They can have access only to my CC info.

I'm not sure what you mean by "information" since they are not able to get it my Paypal info, and it's not necessarily part of doing business on the Internet. There is no way Paypal can get my bank account information unless I give it to them.

BTW, I'm close to reaching my $10K spending limit with Paypal. I didn't find out about it until I was about $700 shy of the limit. So basically I won't be able to use my account soon unless I give them my bank account info (no way), or get a Paypal credit card (also not what I want to do). So soon I will have to get a new CC and email address (pretty easy to do) to continue to use Paypal. I would rather go through that hassle than give Paypal any more info than my address and CC number.

apc

max - I'm kinda in the same boat. I don't like the idea of them having direct access to my bank account. CC is one thing, but banking info is reserved for mortgages or other high end "need-to-knows".

heiney9

Right, because no one else on earth can get your bank info. It's probably THE most common information available. If you don't do internet banking, every check you write has all that info printed right on it for anyone in the chain of handling to see and use. If you bank electronically, that info is just as suceptible to being hacked, stolen, etc as it is with Paypal. When was the last documented case of someone hacking into Paypal to get bank info? I'm not talking hacking your account because of phishing or a poor password, but actually hacked into Paypal's data base and stole information?

H9

heiney9

I am curious, why the extreme mistrust of Paypal? How are they any different than any other on-line electronic retailer that needs your info to process a purchase?

H9

apc

I suppose it boils down to permission vs hacking. Crazy as it may sound, I don't like the idea of volunteering access to my bank account with permission to add or withdraw based on a need they see. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought I'd heard about them withdrawing funds during a dispute.

Now, it sounds like I'm expecting trouble, when I'm not. As usual, lack of education about a process leads to distrust. It may be that paypal is the only safe way to do trading online. I dunno, but I'm old enough to be suspicious.

edit - I use credit cards exclusively when trading with online vendors. I understand there's a certain amount of protection with them.

heiney9

They may freeze funds during a dispute until it's resolved. As a buyer who has been burned in the early days (before they froze funds) I think it's a great idea. It's like anything else, they have their rules and if you want to participate you have to agree to the rules. In that case I understand, but it's pretty much the price of admission into that arena. I see several sellers on Ebay that don't do Paypal at all. I skip them, I don't do postal money orders.

Ebay/Paypal has become more buyer friendly over the past few years and I can see where some sellers can get frustrated. But they seller used to have most if the power because the buyer had to send funds in good faith hoping to get exactly what was described to them, if not it was an uphill fight. It's a more level playing ground now.

Have you ever read your CC user agreement? You'd be amazed at the verbiage and stuff you think is covered generally isn't. Most CC don't have buyer protection for anything purchased more than 50 miles from the biliing address, did you know that? Everyone wants to villify Paypal in favor of a CC. But the CC are probably even more crooked on the whole. All I'm suggesting is reading you user agreements for your particular CC before dumping on Paypal, because in the olden days CC were in your corner, not the case at all anymore today.

I personally don't think using a CC is any better from a recourse p.o.v. than using Paypal. Of course there are exceptions.

H9

apc

Good points. I didn't know about the 50 mile thing. Pays to educate yourself, so I need to read my CC agreement. Thanks for your insight.

heiney9

I would just refamiliarize yourself with it. I'm older as well and back in the 80's CC's were really much more customer oriented. Not saying all of them aren't today, but things have changed and there are so many large corporations backing CC and we assume we are covered for all this stuff and sometimes we flat out aren't or there are very specific circumstances for coverage. Some of it is to cover their butt's and for abuses by customers and they may never enforce it, but they have the right to.

I have had to file a couple disputes with my debit card and I was amazed at how quickly and effortlessly they remedied the situation, but I could see people abusing it as well so perhaps that's why all the specifics are in place, not for you and I, but for habitual abusers that dispute everything.

H9

pitdogg2

apc wrote: »

max - I'm kinda in the same boat. I don't like the idea of them having direct access to my bank account. CC is one thing, but banking info is reserved for mortgages or other high end "need-to-knows".

Well if you're that concerned you could do what others "like me" do. I went to my credit union and set up an account just for PP. There's never any amount in it except 5.00 unless I buy something then I transfer the funds to that account. PP can't jack me as well as others. If anything goes south the most I'm out is an over draft fee 45.00 but even then my CU will most likely drop it if it was a hack. Now if it was MY mistake sure I get the fee and then some but I will not let that happen at all.

I would NEVER in a MILLION years give them my other checking or savings accounts...BUT as Brock H9 says if they want it bad enough they will get it and most likely it will be someone other than PP. Going on 10yrs now never a problem

cstmar01

Never once had an issue with Paypal. I do like that they do freeze funds as I had a seller I delt with and he said he was just going to take the money and run as I was the one who "mislead" him into thinking I had an issue when the unit was broken when it got here and he didn't disclose several things about the product.

I got my money back and he got nothing. I was happy that it worked out and they were fast to respond. I shipped the thing back, sent them the tracking # and had a delivery confirmation done, he refused to sign and they sent my money back because they knew he was avoiding the delivery.

You know all the little #'s at the bottom of a check you write? That is your account number and routing # of the bank. Combine that with your name, address on the check, and if you put your DL # on there then well you just opened yourself to fraud. Also its not hard to get other things like DOB etc. I like the service paypal does and makes it easy to get what you need when you need it. yeah the fees suck but its a service and more secure than some other types of payments.

heiney9

I guess I never thought about it, but I do have a misc account my paypal is hooked to, not my "main" account. I guess that does give some piece of mind as I don't usually keep more than a couple hundred in the account, mostly less if I'm buying stuff on Ebay, etc.

H9

maximillian

Credit card companies have some strict laws governing their behavior. Paypal has very little. There are loads of horror stories on the net about Paypal. So I simply don't want to trust them with access to my account. A separate account might be OK though. But, I still like CC only. If a Paypal dispute doesn't get resolved in my favor I can always dispute with my CC company and get the funds back easily. You can't do that with Paypal.

My CC company (BOA) will protect beyond 50 miles. A couple years ago someone spent around $500 at a Lowes across the country from me. BOA flagged the transaction, sent me an email, I called and disputed, and a few days later I had to sign an affidavit that it wasn't my purchase. It was an easy process and I was out $0 in the end. The only inconvenience is that I had to wait 2 weeks for new cards. No big deal since I had another credit card to use in the interim.

You are correct that the information is "out there" and with enough digging around it can be all put together. That is why I limit the "out there" stuff. I like paying everything with a credit card. Many utilities allow paying by CC too. Then I have one bill to pay at the end of the month. And since my account is held by the same bank as my CC, then there is a slightly less security risk since it's an internal transaction. And all the transactions get CC protection as well.

BTW, this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale
(ever see, "Catch Me If You Can"?) basically recommends the paying-all-by-CC approach too.

heiney9

maximillian wrote: »

Credit card companies have some strict laws governing their behavior. Paypal has very little.

That's comical as they have found loop-holes for everything. What evidence do you have to support that "paypal has very little"? I'd like to see the evidence of that as they should fall under the same guidlines as banks/credit cards, etc. The "strict" laws you speak of are a complete joke and were implemented to instill consumer confidence, not to actually alleviate the devious behavior of cc's.

H9

Drenis

[QUOTE=apc;1782147I don't like the idea of volunteering access to my bank account with permission[/QUOTE]

I hate to rain on the parade, but if you've ever accessed your bank account through your institutions website, you always run the risk of someone intruding your machine to gain access to login information without even knowing it or simply screen capturing what you do.

My point is that while there are security functions and protocols in place, everything is still very much accessible for the person who wants it the most. This is why everyone has protection guarding them against acts such as fraud, etc. If PayPal wasn't as secure as it is or had a good reputation, other companies wouldn't allow you to use their service.

I like the fact people ARE paranoid and take this topic seriously. I remember years ago when you could log into almost any ones account and no one took fraud seriously.

maximillian

heiney9 wrote: »

What evidence do you have to support that "paypal has very little"? I'd like to see the evidence of that as they should fall under the same guidlines as banks/credit cards, etc.
H9

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-858264.html

They aren't completed unregulated. But with access to your account they can grab your money whenever they feel justified, and you have to fight them to get it back. CC companies never have your funds until you send it to them. You use their money during a transaction, not yours.

There are too many bad stories on http://www.paypalsucks.com to ignore as simple unsatisfied customers. I think the concept of a Paypal is good, but the execution is a little lacking. But they are the most popular service out there so I still use them for their convenience. I chimed in simply to offer an opinion on why one should be cautious. If you have not had a problem and like their service as is, great, continue to use them.

Toolfan66

I have been verified for years with Paypal and I have yet to have any problems if anything it has made it easier to use..

gdb

The ONLY people I want to have access to my bank accounts are: me, my wife, my bank's personnel ! Period. With credit cards, you're protected from fraud & theft with a $0.00 -$50.00 maximum liability. NObank will ever offer you that ! :eek:(none that I know of anyway)

Dennis Gardner

gdb wrote: »

The ONLY people I want to have access to my bank accounts are: me, my wife, my bank's personnel ! Period. With credit cards, you're protected from fraud & theft with a $0.00 -$50.00 maximum liability. NObank will ever offer you that ! :eek:(none that I know of anyway)

Banks are held to the same level on a debit card as the credit card company is. My bank has refunded hacks into my account on 2 occasions. Neither was tied to anything internet based. They were direct ACH draft hacks.

The key to successful internet protections is using a debit/purchase type of account that I regulate the balance through transfers from my main account. I only transfer what I need. I also don't want overdraft protection on this account, since that would allow anyone tapping that account to overdraft it. I want unwanted attempts to be foiled by being refused, not protected. I practice this on both personal and business accounts used for online and for all vendor purchases since I operate both debt free. Never had an issue with over 1000 Verified Paypal transactions in 14 years.

In todays world, your only protection is your own due diligence.

[Deleted User]

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Well if you're that concerned you could do what others "like me" do. I went to my credit union and set up an account just for PP. There's never any amount in it except 5.00 unless I buy something then I transfer the funds to that account. PP can't jack me as well as others. If anything goes south the most I'm out is an over draft fee 45.00 but even then my CU will most likely drop it if it was a hack. Now if it was MY mistake sure I get the fee and then some but I will not let that happen at all.

I would NEVER in a MILLION years give them my other checking or savings accounts...BUT as Brock H9 says if they want it bad enough they will get it and most likely it will be someone other than PP. Going on 10yrs now never a problem

+1 to this, inquire around to see which banks have a no fee checking account. I went through this a while back. I never keep more than about 50 bucks in my paypal account. Cheers. :cool:

cstmar01

maximillian wrote: »

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-858264.html

They aren't completed unregulated. But with access to your account they can grab your money whenever they feel justified, and you have to fight them to get it back. CC companies never have your funds until you send it to them. You use their money during a transaction, not yours.

There are too many bad stories on http://www.paypalsucks.com to ignore as simple unsatisfied customers. I think the concept of a Paypal is good, but the execution is a little lacking. But they are the most popular service out there so I still use them for their convenience. I chimed in simply to offer an opinion on why one should be cautious. If you have not had a problem and like their service as is, great, continue to use them.

Just an FYI if you follow the right to offset in the case of default then yes a CC company etc can take your money out of a checking account etc.

If you bank at the same place you have your CC thru they can and will do that if you default and they see it. I know you are talking if you're current but its not something that you are 100% secure against.

IMO most of the problems that also stem from paypal being bad etc are due to the user's as well. Even on a CC or DC etc you have time frames. A lot of people get mad because they go past these and then want to file a claim and can't. Its no one's fault but the person for not reading the rules or knowing what can happen. There is a risk in everything you do, you have to figure out how much and if the cost is worth the risk.

Paypal provides an easy to use service. Just because they have my checking account # doesn't mean much. I could still go back and dispute it with my bank if they took something I didn't authorize. Normally if they are going to take something its because there is a reason.

JimKellyfan

I believe to sell any items, you need a verified account. Pittdog2 is right on with placing a not regularly used credit union account with them. One good note, not only for the paranoid anymore is keeping all three credit reports frozen. Some states there is a fee and some states it is free to do. Just googling or binging security freeze and follow the links to state fees and you will see it. In any case, keeping your credit reports frozen until needed is the safest way I know. Also, for putting your bank info in paypal, I have put it in, made my transaction, then after all was said and done, took it back out. I too, have more than one bank account, with a pittance in both, really. They are there merely to play middle man. I make and then hand over the monies.

oldmodman

Here is what I did to verify my PayPal account.

I opened up a savings account at a local bank that had the lowest minimum balance requirement to qualify for a no fee account. Then I linked it to my PayPal account, satisfying their bank link needs. Then I set up a credit card to be used as backup to the PayPal account.
So whenever I make a PayPal purchase I chose the credit card as my method of payment. Then I am protected in case of a fraud when I buy something on E-Bay.

And with no money in the savings account I am protected from PayPal pulling money out of the account in case of someone accusing me of participating in a fraud.

And it has worked twice when I was shipped something other than what I had ordered and the seller accused me of fraudulently claiming "wrong item sent" I ended up loosing nothing but it took PayPal and E-bay month to "refund" my account. In the meantime I just notified my credit card company and had the charge removed. PayPal didn't like that very much. Tough luck PayPal.