Realtor misrepresentation question....

codyc1ark

So, I got an interesting note from our town manager when I was in Indy, seems they owe me money. :eek: The reason, I'm on a septic system, not town sewer. One of the reasons I limited my search to I town was to avoid septic, I don't want the worry. A few weeks ago the city did some work to my neighbors house, and they had doubted that I was on city.

So, I pulled my MLS sheet and it states city water and sewer, nothing about septic. I'm going to call him tomorrow, I feel like he owes me to have the house put on city sewer. What if he gives me some pushback? What are my recourses? What should I do on my end? Hopefully someone here will have some knowledge on this kind of situation...

heiney9

Talk to real estate attorney, probably the one that represented you at your closing, not an audio forum. Did you have a house inspection? What did it say?

An MLS listing is usually not responsible for typo's. Can you tell the difference between city and septic since it was so important to you? Some of the burden is on you since you were aware there are both and you specifically wanted one and not the other.

Realtors are dumb when it comes to that stuff, that's why you are represented by an attorney and/or have a home inspection, etc.

Talk to your attorney.

H9

heiney9

How long have you lived in the house? If you haven't gotten a bill from the City for sewer that would be a red flag. Did you ask your realtor or the prior owners how much their City water and waste bill was each month? These should have been questions you asked before you closed on the house if you knew you wanted city water/sewer, etc.

H9

codyc1ark

I have already contacted the one I did the closing with, hopefully she calls me back tomorrow. Yes, I do know this is an audio forum H9, but how many questions have we seen here that have had some great advice, not related to audio?

Anyway, see the first sentence. I've been billed for city sewer for the last 2.5 years. When I purchased the home, it was sold to me as being on city sewer. What would be the signs of being on a septic? My basement has pipes running out of it just like every other house I've lived at, septic or city. And yes, I did get copies of prior city bills. She paid for sewer for 3+ years according to the city.

heiney9

codyc1ark wrote: »

So, I got an interesting note from our town manager when I was in Indy, seems they owe me money. :eek: The reason, I'm on a septic system, not town sewer. One of the reasons I limited my search to I town was to avoid septic, I don't want the worry. A few weeks ago the city did some work to my neighbors house, and they had doubted that I was on city...

Sorry, but nowhere in there does it say you were getting a city sewer bill. Is this a house you live in or rental property. "When I was in Indy", don't know what that means either. I guess I didn't connect the dots.

Again, I have to say you are a bit responsible to know if you have septic or city sewer. Obviously if you are being billed in error than you have an issue with the City. How this falls back on the realtor, I have no idea. They are about as stupid as they come. If you wanted a/c in a car you bought would you atleast confirm it or take the car salesperson's word for it. Realtors can be the eqivalent to a car salesperson.

So far based on what you've posted it's something about what your neighbor has said based on work he had done on his house. Is there a septic drain on your property? I'd think that would be where I'd start and then do some investigating in the County Clerks office, zoning and other City offices to find out.

H9

heiney9

I'd look out side for a drain pipe, it's probably vented with some sort of cap and it might be flush with your yard or typically they stick up above ground so you don't trip/mow over it. This pipe is so it can be periodically drained by companies like Roto-Rooter, etc. The septic is usually farther away from the house in the front or back depending on lot and house orientation.

City sewer still has pipes going out of your basement but they tie in (usually at the street level) into an underground piping system that is part of the street drain and is carried off to a City processing plant.

I am basing this on where I live, might be some variations in other parts of the Country and/or based on how old the house is..

H9

toucanet

Try the following in order to find out if you are on a septic system or City sewer system:

Look in the street and locate any manholes that are within close proximity on either side of said property. Look at the lids and see if they are marked "water" or "sewer" and determine which way the slope of the street is in relation to said property (think gravity).

Once you identify which manhole(s) is/are sewer, have someone to pour some type of dye in your plumbing (toilet/sink/tub, etc.) while you stand in the street with the lid off so that you may see the dye as it is draining by way of the lateral from your property.

Be sure to exercise safety and have something in the street to let drivers see that you are working in the street.

If you are not comfortable doing this, I recommend you call a plumber and have them to run a camera down the sewer pipe.

Good luck!

codyc1ark

No septic drain that I know of. I was on vacation in indiana and live in the property. I look at it this way, inspection did not catch it, MLS states that it was on city sewer, and I bought the property from the listing agent, not a third party agent. My county tax card states city as well. Our neighbor was having drainage/backup issues, that's when they discovered the error. The city is going to refund or credit me for the error. All of the information I had points to city sewer, nothing anywhere states septic. I would assume that the realtor is at least partially liable for the representation of the property, or at least the previous owner. This isnt the end of the world for me, the major cost seems to be in the pump I'll have to buy, and to have it installed. The city will hook into the pump for free. But, not being a plumber or having full knowledge of a sewer system, I don't understand how this is my fault. Like I said, tax card, MLS, city and inspector all said city sewer. I feel like I'm covered on my end, I did what I could.

heiney9

I think you'll find the prior owner nor the realtor are responsible. The city certainly is IF they have been billing for a service they don't provide.

I would find it odd that the inspection, prior owner and realtor all state it's City but now you think it's sewer.

Again, each city, subdivision, county is different. I agree you did what you could do, but trying to pin on one of those people after the fact is going to be an uphill battle. The one that is most at fault is the City, IMO simply because since they build and maintain the sewer system they should be in the know. Where I live you don't have a choice, it's either City or septic maybe where you live the owner can choose because if all you need is a pump to hook in then it sounds simple.

But, I understand your anger if you were told something different than what was there. Again, 3 independent people said it was City and if you don't find a septic drain, then I would think it's probably City.

H9

codyc1ark

That's kind of what I'm wondering. Where did said parties get the info that it was on city? The city thought I was on city until the neighbors had an issue. My house was build in 49, there's was 51. We share a driveway, otherwise, no other neighbors. Somewhat frustrating right now, but like I said, not the end of the world. I'll get it figured out, just not tonight. Time for a beer.

heiney9

I work in Real Estate Title Insurance, and your situation sounds like some of the stuff we run into all the time. Not specifically about city or septic, but the general issue of either perpetuating something that has been wrong for a long time or just discovering an issue by circumstance like you did with your neighbors having work done and then discovering something might be amiss.

Errors, oversight, stupidity, appathy, etc.......all contribute to these issues. Some are easy to deal with others are a real PITA.

Good luck and enjoy that beer!

H9

evhudsons

The Realtor is responsible for providing the information they have been given and disclosing it. They are not responsible for researching to make sure it is accurate information.

Make sure you separate out storm water from the equation here we have a bill for garbage, another one for storm water, and then the sewer bill which is loosely correlated with your water bill. Don't trust accounting departments either A place I rented sent sewer bills, but the sewer lines were a year from install, and I had a cesspit under the house. Yuk

tonyb

I guess that sucker hasn't been cleaned out either in all this time. Did the crap smell in the yard when it rains hard not bother you ? Or the well water ?

Anyway, an attorney is your best bet but mind you real estate firms are not held responsible for misinformation in general. You would have to prove they had prior knowlege of the property being on septic which may be hard to do.

codyc1ark

Septic hasn't been cleaned or serviced since I've been here. I tell you guys, I love owning my own place, great feeling, but hell, it's always something.

Edit - no smells, an I know for a fact that I am on city water.

ken brydson

A Realtor (I am one) can only disclose material facts that they are personally aware of. In WA we have a seller disclosure that when we list a home the seller needs to complete. I can't even fill in their name because as soon as my pen hits the page I assume some liablility. That being said, after my seller completes the disclosure I go over it line by line just to clarify and to make sure everything is accurate for prospective buyers. In the case of sewer vs septic I also verify from the health dept and/or the tax records to confirm.
Good luck!

heiney9

Ken, my comments about realtor's are for some realtors not all. So I hope you didn't take my comments personally. I know some really good one's and some dip sh*ts too.

evhudsons

H9, you gave perfect advice, and as a Realtor I can vouch for your other opinions about many Realtors. It's shocking to a large degree the lack of many faculties and suspect motives of some Realtors, but many of us are stellar in professionalism.

Squidmon

I as a Realtor, concur with Ken. But, on the property condition report there are spots for disclosing any defects to a well or septic system. These condition reports are to be filled out by the SELLER ONLY. If the seller neglects to disclose something, the Realtor is not held liable. A realtor can only really influence the report if they observe a defect that was not entered on the report, and then urge the SELLER to change it.

dkg999

Before you get too far, I would actually find the components of the septic system, and make sure it is still in operation. In a lot of properties that were once in fringe areas that were eventually incorporated into a city they just disconnected the septic system and cut in a pipe going to the city sewer system, and the septic system was never removed. Ground water can then be running into the old septic system and appear to be draining out the septic field. I would get someone with a probe to find out what you really have.

sucks2beme

If the city was billing for it, and the seller said it was on sewer, the only way it would of come up is if the
inspection found it. IF the city said it was, and the seller said it was, how would the realtor be liable?
Only if she had knowledge. It still could be on city sewer. You're going to have to either find a way to check,
or pay to have it done. You may be able to tell of the main pipe goes toward the street or if it goes toward the back yard.
A plumber should be able to tell in a couple of minutes.

mudwrx

When you bought the house did you get any plot plans? If you have septic it should be listed here. You could also go to the town hall and ask for your plot plans, they may have a copy. Also, when you exchanged papers, if you got anything called Title V (Title 5), this means you have septic (at least in my area).

Here is how my septic works: first, I have the plans so I know where everything is located on the property. This is important, since you need to know these things if you do any digging, excavating, etc. We are actually getting a deck put on the back right now, and the permit needed to make sure the septic would not be disturbed.
Anyway, somewhere on the property there is the septic tank. This is the main tank that holds all the solids/waste (the nasty stuff). above this there is a lid for the tank. The tank itself varies, but my size is 1500 gallons. The entire tank is buried well below ground, and the lid is about a foot or so deep. So to access it we have to dig down about one foot. The tank also has an overflow pipe to another smaller tank for liquids. This also has a lid, as this is where a filter is as well.
The filter is to a very long pipe that runs to a leech field, about 30 yards away. This is where the liquids run off to a leech pit and disperse from there. My town requires a certain amount of land for each property with septic. We have about a half an acre.

So to summarize, if you have septic there has to be plans/drawings somewhere showing where everything is located. I would look for this. And if you do have septic and have not had it pumped yet, that would definitely be my next step.

Good luck.

sucks2beme

mudwrx wrote: »

So to summarize, if you have septic there has to be plans/drawings somewhere showing where everything is located. I would look for this. And if you do have septic and have not had it pumped yet, that would definitely be my next step.
Good luck.

Has to be? Yes, in a perfect world. This one ain't even close to perfect.
He's going to either have to strong arm the city to come out and check it,
or pay a plumber. Let's hope it isn't septic, because finding the tank could bet ugly.

dkg999

Finding the septic tank is relatively easy! I can vouch for the fact that if you flush about 50 gal. of fermenting homemade beer down into the septic tank in a few days you will be able to view the remains of the tank from the rim of the hole in the ground and know exactly where the tank is Most people will use one of those nifty water sensors that the utility locator people have.

billbillw

I'd say you have no recourse against either the Realtor or the previous owner. You've been there more than 2 years. Its obvious that neither knew of this issue since everyone, including the public utility thought the house was connected to the sewer. You just need to move on, figure out for sure where your drains go, and fix the problem. Its just part of home ownership.

ken brydson

heiney9 wrote: »

Ken, my comments about realtor's are for some realtors not all. So I hope you didn't take my comments personally. I know some really good one's and some dip sh*ts too.

No offense taken Brock. There are knuckleheads in about any profession....

codyc1ark

Talked to the realator today, he is supposed to get back with me tomorrow with some word. He has been a pretty stand up guy to work with. When I moved into the property the AC was not working, he paid to have it repaired. My main goes out the back, my water main comes through the front. I learned that when a few days into the property they came to turn it off, even though I had transfered the service, the previous owner had not paid up to when she should have. I'm really thinking this is the doing of the previous owner. We will see what happens, like I've said, I'm not mad, just a bit frustrated with the situation. I didn't receive anything about a septic system in our contract, tax info, or MLS. I hate to be the one out, but as I've learned in the past two and a half years, home ownership sucks! :cheesygrin: But, it is a means to a better end, I hope...