House Electrician wiring Review (generator)

bansheesho

We have been having frequent power outages so I decided to grab a 5000w 120/240 generator.. the previous owners of the house had a 240 plug installed in the garage for generator hookup, but no transfer panel or anything. The large wiring goes directly to the downstairs panel... It has a 3 prong socket on the box in the garage and a 4 prong socket on the generator... I have done a bit of research and I think I know what needs to happen to get them to properly connect... Just want someone to review my thoughts..


First off I am well aware that the main switch MUST be turned off first and remain off until the generator is disconnected... I also will be turning all the breakers off, plugging in the wall side first then starting the generator and plugging it in... Also, shutting down properly too.... I am aware that a transfer panel is the proper way to do this, but with the infrequency that this normally happens I don't think its worth the $500 to have one installed. I believe this way will work fine as long as care is taken ...



So my question about the patch cord... Connect both powers and the neutral... But the ground is what I am getting mixed signals on. If I measure the resistance from the neutral to the ground I was told to leave the ground unhooked... But if it is an open circuit there that I need to ground it to the house ground... Have also been told to ground it to the neutral at the 3 plug connector.... Thoughts?

DaveHo

bansheesho wrote: »

It has a 3 prong socket on the box in the garage and a 4 prong socket on the generator...
....

Thoughts?

Yeah, don't make a suicide cord. At the very least replace the connection in the the garage with a proper inlet.

-Dave

dkg999

Do you really think coming to an audio forum for advice on something that could burn your house down and/or backfeed into the power grid and injure someone is the best plan? You should pay for some qualified advice.

bansheesho

I am sure there are a ton of people on this forum knowledgeable on generator hookup.... I was looking for some clarification only.. but if you aren't interested in explaining then refrain from commenting. There are things I do every day that are much more dangerous than making a 240v patch cord.... Like driving to work... Or for me working, so I am not concerned about a little bit of DIY wiring, not that I don't have respect for it.

I might consider putting a different socket in the garage...

bansheesho

If the moderator thinks this is inappropriate and causes a liability for Polk audio or anything, then just go ahead and delete the thread... Not too terribly concerned about it.

amulford

I'd change out the socket in the garage like Dave said. Even though the neutral and ground bus bars are connected in your panel, I'm just anal about that kinda crap.

Just MAKE DAMN sure you are off the grid when you try to use it. I know you said you would be, I'm just reinforcing the thought. When people are doing repairs on the lines, they don't need you powering up the circuit, ya know? That's one of the jobs of the transfer switch. Plus if you aren't synced with the grid it causes other issues.

bansheesho

Just MAKE DAMN sure you are off the grid when you try to use it.

Yes.. I plan to be.. infact I was thinking of getting some sort of lockout switch for the main so that it can me mechanically locked into the off position...

madmax

If it were me I'd spend $500 for a panel or stay portable with an extension cord. Actually, I wouldn't allow that patch cord to remain connected. If you ever have a fire for any reason the insurance inspector will bee-line right for that connection. Could make it tough to get payment out of them. Safety reasons without a panel is enough to keep me from doing this connection.

Rivrrat

DaveHo wrote: »

Yeah, don't make a suicide cord. At the very least replace the connection in the the garage with a proper inlet.

-Dave

I deal with portable generators ( diesel trailer mounts for emergency telcom power) at work all the time, and like Dave said, I would replace the inlet that you'll be using. I would be very hesitant to build a power cable that doesn't match connection for connection, even for home use.

If something happens to that generator and it's not properly grounded, you may end up with a problem you didn't want.

obieone

Hire............an............electrician!

bansheesho

Good point on the insurance thing... Since it is just for emergency use anyway I might just get a couple of extension cords to run to certain appliances and just leave the house out of it all together.....

amulford

Thats what my brother does. He has a groundwater problem and frequent outages. He has a cord run to the fridge/freezer and to the sump pumps. It turns the trick...

mrbigbluelight

dkg999, agree with your sentiment to a certain degree.
When you start messing with the potential to dual-sourcing your equipment and a re-energized main grid, or not properly isolating your equipment from a dead grid

YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING !!!!!

You, along with Amulford, Madmax, and DavidHo have given excellent direction. But, when I think of a statement bansheesho made:

"I am aware that a transfer panel is the proper way to do this, but with the infrequency that this normally happens I don't think its worth the $500 to have one installed.

my spider-sense tingles so much that my hair is about to catch fire.

bansheesho, if it is the last thing on earth you ever do, you MUST install a MANUAL transfer switch.

Not sure what part of the country you're in, but if you can get a MANUAL (break-before-make, obviously) transfer switch installed for $500 (including all appropriate city/county/state permits), DO IT.

Do yourself a favor, bansheesho: this would/will be the absolute best $500 you have ever spent in your life.
If you don't, practice the following phrases that you'll use in the future:

"I thought that ....", "I was sure that ..." , "It shouldn't have ....", "I don't know how that ....","it wasn't supposed to ..." "Nobody told me that...", etc.
These phrases will be useful as you explain to your kids/wife/neighbors/insurance inspectors how someone in your family, neighbors' family, lineman's family got lit up and/or killed from your mistake. Or how your house burned down.

bansheesho, if you have a neighbor telling you, "Ah, it's okay, I do it all the time !", that's a good thing because you now know, with absolute certainty, your neighbor is an idiot.

Here's a general link to a website that can connect you with local suppliers in your area for generator interlocks.
Picked it at random, but the feel of the equipment offered (Square D, Siemens, etc) gives me a gut feeling they aren't a backyard, salvage operation.
They don't, for instance, offer any "death panel" crap like Frank Adams, Erickson, etc.

http://www.interlockkit.com/localsup01.htm#

So dkg999, I hope bansheesho comes away with a couple of things:
1. Okay to gather generalized information.
2. Take heed to general advice.
3. Take that general advice and seek out PROFESSIONAL guidance based upon the WARNINGS given.

bansheesho

While I believe it could be made relatively safely and easily, I will just skip hooking it to the house at all and buy some heavy extension cords with a 3 branch plug at the end and just balance the appliances I need to run between the 120v sockets...

The liability is too great and cost is too much to install a transfer panel for the infrequency of use to justify the cost...

madmax

When the lights go out portable is kinda fun anyway, something out of the norm to make your day more exciting.

dkg999

I may have been a little blunt, however after you've had the experience of rerouting some wiring on the farm so you can keep the fans in a confinement building going so several hundred head of livestock don't die and you find out the hard way that your neighbors generator is back-feeding into the power grid, I feel that I have the experience to back up my concerns.

disneyjoe7

dkg999 wrote: »

you find out the hard way that your neighbors generator is back-feeding into the power grid, I feel that I have the experience to back up my concerns.

That's why one should really know what one is doing, but a transfer switch is idiot proof.

Rivrrat

+100 on the transfer switch.