Best 2 Ch. Power Amp. To Power POLK Audio RTi A9's Under $1000.00 New & $500 Used.

Upstatemax

Getting into tubes was the best move I have ever made in audio.

People got mad because you came in here and said off the bat that "tubes are the biggest scam in audio". Not something like, "I'm not a big fan of tubes but I like this...".

When you act like a jerk you get treated like a jerk.

cr136124

+1

On the Emotiva XPA-2 for your RTi A9s. This is the setup that I have at home and if you are not in a hurry you might be able to grab one used with several years of warranty left. What is not to like on that deal?

Of course, if you don't like it, you just need to list it and in just few days someone else with buy it from you.

heiney9

ravaneli wrote: »

tubes are the biggest audio scam in the audio world, but I like it because the people that buy that crap get what they deserve : )

and @ Joe, an amp that has no distortion cannot sound bright or harsh or shmellow. In order for an amp to sound 'warm', like some tube amps do, admittedly, the amp must have distortion on the high end. And while Emotiva has measurably higher distortion than any good name amp, these differences are mostly on paper and not something that human ear can pick up. At least not on blind tests lol

Here we go again..............ravaneli spokesperson for the asshat lounge contingent.

H9

heiney9

ravaneli wrote: »

can someone tell me exactly what in what I said is drawing the fire? That the tube amps have distortion or that they require maintenance? Why do u keep telling me they sound nice, when I never disputed that? Who are you telling that? And as far as distortion goes, you have to take that beef with the people who measure that, including the manufacturers themselves. If you want to spend crazy money to hear a distorted version of the real signal because that way it sounds better to you - that is really up to you. I prefer true, uncolored sound. I want to hear the recording the way it was played during the recording. People have different tastes. So that's the end of this argument:
1. if you say that tubes sound nice - noone is arguing with you.
2. if you say they sound true - then please go dispute the distortion ratings of the people who measure them.

You know, people take jabs at Emotiva for having 0.1% distortion through the entire range while pumping 300W per channel instead of the industry average of .. what.. 0.02%, for the nice brands. But bring a Yaqin amp with 3 % (30 times!) distortion, 25W per channel and 2000$ price tag and superlatives from the audio experts can't stop raining. Seem fair or logical to you? See what grinds my gears?

Not all distortion is created equal and guess what some distortion occurs naturally in a real live performance.

You really should learn some audio stuff before you start spouting off about something you haven't even begun to grasp.

H9

heiney9

Emotiva and RTiA's will make your ears bleed. I see some people like that sort of abuse.

H9

cr136124

heiney9 wrote: »

Emotiva and RTiA's will make your ears bleed. I see some people like that sort of abuse.

H9

Yeah, I see one of them every morning at the mirror.......LOL.

nooshinjohn

cr136124 wrote: »

+1

On the Emotiva XPA-2 for your RTi A9s. This is the setup that I have at home and if you are not in a hurry you might be able to grab one used with several years of warranty left. What is not to like on that deal?

Of course, if you don't like it, you just need to list it and in just few days someone else with buy it from you.

This is not one of the better combinations out there... cheapest perhaps, but you are not getting the very best out of those speakers either. Garbage in=Garbage out.

Geoff4rfc

Dang! Did I miss another ravioli disaster?

@ John, while I agree there are better amps than the emos, calling them gargage puts you in the back seat with ravioli

nooshinjohn

Just a figure of speach... I figure if tubes can be called junk, scams and whatnot, then everything is fair game.:cool: If you are happy with what you've got, then crank it up until the ears bleed and be happy. After all, we each find sonic bliss in our own way. Audio reproduction is not a team sport.

Geoff4rfc

I can dig it. I learned that saying about 20 years ago, the Pastor at the church I was going to at the time would use that saying every now and then.

ravaneli

It's not a party without H9. After all he is the keeper of most of the myths here. Humble, confidence-lacking souls like geoff would agree to whatever just to feel accepted by the crowd. Go along to get along. Nobody here has the confidence to process information independently.

Transistors can do everything tubes can do, and do it much better and much cheaper. The only reason there are no solid state amps with the sonic profile of a tube amp is that they will get killed with the distortion ratings. See, if you make a solid state amp, people measure and care about distortion. If you make a tube, the distortion is carefully omitted from the review, and whenever it is cited, they don't say how it is measured. 10% distortion is nothing rare for a tube. Has anyone looked at the rolloff graph of a tube amp? It falls off a cliff after 7khz- 10khz. No wonder it sounds 'mellow'. the highs are full 3db lower than the rest. And if the rest of the curve was flat it would be OK, just attenuation of the highs, but no. The entire response curve looks like a roller-coaster. It is a disgrace. If anyone tells u that is the response curve of a solid state you will return that amp to the manufacturer with an angry letter. But if it's tube u are ready to cough up 10k. I saw the graph of a Carver Silver Seven the other day. I couldn't believe it. That thing cost a fortune. But no. If it's tube, it is divine, and thou shalt not speak evil of it.

F1nut

ravaneli wrote: »

blah, blah, blah

LOL......your level of ignorance is only out done by your level of stupidity.

F1nut

AVTONY2510 wrote: »

I need an Amp. to cut down on the Bright/Harshness, Something Warmish Sounding..

One of the Parasound amps should do the trick.

F1nut

For your education ravioli,

http://www.manley.com/msn.php

tonyb

Rav,
Do you purposely try and outdo yourself with these wacky posts ? Just asking is all.

Tube amps have their turkeys too just like SS gear, nobody will deny that, but specs don't tell the whole story. Distortion is entered into the signal in many ways by both tube and SS gear, some good, some not so much. Most guys here would tell you they like the sound of those vintage receivers from Marantz, Sansui, etc....over todays receivers which have much lower distortion levels. Why would that be ?

Tube amps can be expensive, but so can SS amps. 10K is so outside the norm it isn't funny. Your stretching in your post with lack of knowlege or experience to boot. I suggest you get some experience and read up on some things before making junkbond posts. Thats a new term I just thought of.:cheesygrin:

11tsteve

ravaneli wrote: »

Has anyone looked at the rolloff graph of a tube amp?

its not the graph that you listen to with your ears.

nobody here disputes anything about numbers or any other crap you are saying except you take a hard line that tubes are bad, and you are preaching it, just the same way they preach tubes are best. but until you actually listen to tubes ( this is audio, right) and can make an informed auditory opinion, you are no different than anyone else around here.
this is an argument about arguing, and it is ridiculous.

falconcry72

I don't think my tubed preamp is rolling anything off:

+/- 0.5dB, 2Hz to 30kHz at rated output. -3dB points below 0.3Hz and above 80kHz.

Flat enough for you?

gdb

ravaneli wrote: »

why so pissed? I actually said that they sound 'euphonic'. Why do u take it personal? I said they sound nice but they have very high distortion, and it's not me who measured the distortion, that's how it's reported everywhere. Well if something has (audible) distortion, it doesn't portray a true picture of the recording, even if it sounds nice to you. What here makes u pull the knives?

Newsflash !!! Rock & roll guitar?? HUGE......wait for it......distortion ! Not all distortion is always a bad thing.

heiney9

Tubes don't have to be rolled off at all. In fact some of my tubes in my pre and other tube gear sound and lively and detailed, even moreso than a mediocre solid state equivalent. Once again ravioli has no idea what he's talking about. Not all tubes and the gear they reside in are rolled off. Can some be that way, sure, but that's not the norm, it's the exception. If you actually listened and spent some time with tubed gear you'd know this. Again, parroting what you read is not the same thing as first hand experience. I used to think that as well, then I got into tubes and my preconceptions were so dead WRONG it's actually embarrassing to admit.

You are dead wrong ravioli, dead wrong and specs don't really ever tell the real story about how something will sound.

H9

heiney9

ravaneli wrote: »

The only reason there are no solid state amps with the sonic profile of a tube amp is that they will get killed with the distortion ratings. See, if you make a solid state amp, people measure and care about distortion.

You might want to Google a fellow by the name of Nelson Pass.

Of course I know you won't and even if you do, you probably won't understand it. But hey, I gave it a shot at trying to get you some education from a very qualified source.

You are green beyond belief Ravioli, you act as if ALL types of distortion are the same and I have no idea what specs you are quoting in your post since you just write with no actual source to back it up.

You say the entire response looks like a roller coaster??? Tubes by their very nature are a more linear device than most typical transistors (I say typical because Nelson Pass is working with some static induction transistors that are very much like tubes in their behavior). Can a poor circuit be designed around tubes? Sure, just like a poor circuit can be desgined around transistors.

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

H9

cstmar01

just wow.

Guess I'm going to go throw my stuff in the trash as its just junk and I read it on the internet.

You did your research by reading, did it ever once cross your mind to go and LISTEN to the thing, no, why would it? Because I guess everything we read is the truth.

You complain about us having a mindset about stuff and everyone must agree. You do the same thing. Well I read this and this and well that person is probably smarter than me and numbers can never lie so I gotta beleive that.

We like people who try stuff out and make their own impressions on it.

Joe08867

F1nut wrote: »

For your education ravioli,

http://www.manley.com/msn.php

That is ridiculously flat curve. Especially at the rated power.

I love how people talk about distortion like they can actually hear it. You can't. That Manley is rated at 1.5% distortion.
I am sorry if you asked me to discern the difference between .1 percent and 1.5% I just couldn't. I doubt any of us could.
It's what makes up the other 98.5% of the signal that really gives something its audio signature.

Until you actually hear it for yourself you will never understand. And the fact that you think that almost imperceptible amount of distortion makes the music different from the original just verifies for me that, you have no idea what you are talking about, and you have backed yourself into a corner and don't know how to get out.

Learn and listen more before bashing something you have no inkling or solid foundation of experience to back up.

Drenis

ravaneli wrote: »

It's not a party without H9. After all he is the keeper of most of the myths here. Humble, confidence-lacking souls like geoff would agree to whatever just to feel accepted by the crowd. Go along to get along. Nobody here has the confidence to process information independently.

Transistors can do everything tubes can do, and do it much better and much cheaper. The only reason there are no solid state amps with the sonic profile of a tube amp is that they will get killed with the distortion ratings. See, if you make a solid state amp, people measure and care about distortion. If you make a tube, the distortion is carefully omitted from the review, and whenever it is cited, they don't say how it is measured. 10% distortion is nothing rare for a tube. Has anyone looked at the rolloff graph of a tube amp? It falls off a cliff after 7khz- 10khz. No wonder it sounds 'mellow'. the highs are full 3db lower than the rest. And if the rest of the curve was flat it would be OK, just attenuation of the highs, but no. The entire response curve looks like a roller-coaster. It is a disgrace. If anyone tells u that is the response curve of a solid state you will return that amp to the manufacturer with an angry letter. But if it's tube u are ready to cough up 10k. I saw the graph of a Carver Silver Seven the other day. I couldn't believe it. That thing cost a fortune. But no. If it's tube, it is divine, and thou shalt not speak evil of it.

You know, I think it's funny actually that people call you "ravioli" around here. And they do it for a valid reason. You make fun of this hobby. How do you do that? By posting garbage like this. I think I'll start calling you Roger Russel from all the stuff you've posted in the past day. Who do you think you are? Think you can just read ANYTHING and automatically gauge a opinion without any trial or evaluation. There are so many good and knowledgeable people here that all you have to do is ask, discuss even. Not slam everything down because magical faery told you to.

It's not a party without H9. After all he is the keeper of most of the myths here.

What an ignorant statement. Myths? Yes everything is myth... when you believe it is! I better sell off my 2-channel and go back to Bose.

Humble, confidence-lacking souls like geoff would agree to whatever just to feel accepted by the crowd. Go along to get along.

Are you Geoff's mommy now? Is he a big boy that can speak for himself? Don;t pull other people into the pile you've begun. Matter of fact, I fail to see where anyone attacked him personally. People perhaps have offered some actual opinions based on what they have heard and experimented with. I see that as being informative.

Nobody here has the confidence to process information independently.

Well now that you've attacked everyone by calling us stupid in other terms, you can GFY. Not only will I never buy anything from you but you are one of the most ignorant users I've ever seen discuss anything around here. If you don't have any facts to support your arguments which are based on no evaluations by listening to how the sound is reproduced by the applicable gear, then you haven't anything to argue about but speak a lot of gibberish.

FWIW, as a boy I remember firing up my uncles old Blaupunkt tube stereo. It took a minute before any sound would play but for such an old piece, it sounded so good. growing up I forgot all about that tech until coming here and learning about tubes again. I'm looking forward to trying and evaluating tubes in my rig. However my ears will tell me if it sounds good, not black and white text!

Drenis

Here is an example ravioli can compute. Take your local news, do you believe everything they print is real or fake? Should you take EVERYTHING you read with a little grain of salt until YOU can verify it? Sometimes you can read right through the BS in some literature. Some people especially reporters will stretch or over exaggerate things you read.

ravaneli

People keep making logically absurd statements. I said 5 times that I am not disputing whether tubes sound good or bad, only that their distortion ratings mean that they do not produce TRUE sound. But every little bugger went through the line to tell me that if ONLY I listened and had some experience with tubes, I would change my mind. Change my mind ABOUT WHAT? They go round and round, discussing how my incompetence reached new levels, but all the love for tubes in the world cannot change 1 single fact: distortion means the tube is 'coloring' the sound and what your are listening, AS PLEASANT AS U THINK IT IS, is not the real thing. You can never change that for as long as tubes have crazy distortion, and they inherently do.

Here is the saddest part for you, blindly-following, logic-hating, tube-loving posse: if someone ever does manage to make a tube amp with low distortion, it will simply sound like a solid state amp! It will just cost 10 times more but have 10 times less power, lol .

Joe08867

You believe what you want. We know what true audio sounds like. You are just lost in the wilderness.

I feel sad for you. Your still a tool though.

heiney9

ravaneli wrote: »

only that their distortion ratings mean that they do not produce TRUE sound.

That is a very WRONG statement. Most mixing counsoles use tubes, almost all professional microphones on stage and in recording studio's use tubes, all guitar amplifiers use tubes, and up until very recently, lots of recording and mixing gear used and still uses tubes. If they don't produce "TRUE" sound then all the recordings you playback on your soiled state gear didn't have TRUE sound to begin with since they were created and recorded using tubes.

Don't you feel like a complete idiot now?

H9

nooshinjohn

I don't feel sad for him in the least Joe. I feel sad for those that cannot possibly know any better, yet put forth some effort anyway. This bozo CAN learn for himself as it is clear to me he has a bit of understanding. He chooses to use is little bit of understanding to reinforce a mis-informed position rather than do any physical learning of his own. That's not sad, it's stupid.

heiney9

Rave-o-neli, you obviously don't even know what distortion is or how it is incorporated into music and speach, both recorded and in real life. Come back in a few years when you've had a chance to figure it out.

Did you ever look up that chap Nelson Pass and his articles? Obvioulsy not, why would you? You'd come back with more than just egg on your face.

H9

Jer.War

Ignore this