Telefunken Smooth Plate 12AX7.................

heiney9

...........worth it or not?

They are expensive and I generally have loved all other TFK's, but they can be a bit clinical in some amplifiers. I hate to spend the money and not like them. I suppose I need to find out first hand, but they are pretty pricey and this is for a secondary rig and that has always been more budget oriented.

Discuss, suggest and give some general impressions. I realize all tube gear is different. There are 4 versions of the smooth plate and I believe them all to sound similar as there are just minor internal differences.

H9

heiney9

I wish I wasn't so damn curious and so obsessive compulsive that I have to try just about every tube combo on the planet. I finally have the Dared I-30 dialed in and sounding incredibly good. Winged =C= 6L6CG power tubes, 1961 Valvo (Heerlen Holland) large halo getter 12AX7 and 1955 Sylvania short blk plate, square getter 12AU7's. I should pick up some spares of these and leave it alone, but I can't :eek:

H9

organ

They're a little better than the Ei Tele copies you have. You're not really missing much since you already have the Ei. Not a problem with them being on the analytical side. Most German tubes are like that. Just pop in a more euphoric tube somewhere in the mix.
Make sure you're getting genuine Telefunken with the <> on the bottom of the tube. A lot of people are selling fakes. They scrub off the Ei logo and silk screen a Tele logo.
Also, I believe the Tele smooth plates are rated for 10 000 hours.

TNHNDYMAN

H9- I have 5 that came out of a Fisher console I picked up last year. Working and have been tested. I'll get you the exact #'s later.

I've considered selling them for the last 6mo but am afraid I'll never have the coin to replace. Really I just want to be able to listen to the fisher console occasionaly so we might be able to trade some cash and a lower end set of 12AX7's that you have and don't need. PM me and I'd rather discuss on the phone vs emails or pms back and forth.

I'm chasing a pair of 2.3TL's so I can use the funds for that and will be happy to give you a Polkie price, just don't know what kind of $ you are looking at thru someone else. At the least I'd be willing to ship you a pair and let you hear them in your system to see if you like and if not I'll be happy to take them back and we can deal with $ later if that would work better for you. I've learned alot from you just by reading your posts and appreciate all you do for the Polk community.

Travis

TNHNDYMAN

Here is a few pics of what I have.

organ

Very cool console.

Dawgfish

I have tried the Telefunken smooth plates before in a Jolida JD-9 phono pre and found them to be a little too much on the analytical side for my liking. For the record though I have to say I prefer my music on the warmer side of things, especially when running tube gear. If I wanted my tube gear to be analytical, why not just switch to solid state? Anyways I'm currently running some early 60s RCA grey plates in their place and I like them much better than the 'funkens. The RCAs have a much warmer midrange while retaining a similiar "airy" top end to the 'funkens though not quite as extended. Bass is quite good with the RCAs also. I believe the soundstage and imaging is better with the 'funkens, but I just can't get over their somewhat sterile tone. I'm also running an early 60's Sylvania Triple Mica Black Plate 5751 in my Anthem Amp 1 over a Valvo Hamburg 12AX7 and I prefer the Sylvania. All of the German tubes I've tried have been too analytical for my tastes. Thanks to TH Smith for the Sylvania Triple Mica BP suggestion btw.

Joe08867

I would go RCA or Tung Sol before those Tele's. Very sterile and not nearly the warmth of a tube like your winged C's.

Have you ever heard Groove Tubes in something other than a guitar amp? That is what they sound like to me. A bit brittle and not warm.

heiney9

TNHANDYMAN - I'll be in touch as soon as I sort some things out.

Joe - I have several other TFK's (5965-which is simply a stunning tube; ECC81- soundstage to die for, but a tad sterile since it's so neutral; ECC801S-even better than the ECC81; ECC85-which are about the best I've heard in that amp) and all but the 5965 have the house TFK sound which to me is dead neutral, which for a tube, isn't always what toobies are looking for. The soundstage is impressive with the TFK's, very wide and deep but I have found if you already have neutral to bright sounding system the TFK sound, depsite the expansive soundstage, might not be for some people.

That's why I'm torn, because I like the attributes of TFK tubes, but they tend to be a little too neutral which in some systems can be interpreted as brittle and harsh.

H9

Dawgfish

H9,

I wouldn't say the TFs sounded brittle or harsh in my system. They just didn't pull you into the music they way many warmer tubes do. I have found for my personal tastes that I prefer sound that pulls you in and evokes emotion with the music over sound that has the last word in detail at the expense of emotion and tone. It just sounds mechanical and analytical to me as opposed to real music. Everyone's taste are different though, so the usual YMMV applies. The thing to do is just try them and see for yourself if you like them or not. Otherwise you'll always wonder. We all know there is no known cure for the audio bug. ;-)

Joe08867

Brock, That's what I have heard with TFK as well. And your last comment hit the nail on the head. So you like a little more on top then? I am similar in taste but not to much top as my music isn't all bit perfect.

So you want your cake and eat it too.. Have you tried any Amperex Holland or Jan Raytheon. They are about the same price wise.

The Jan Raytheon's are super quiet, super smooth and do just about everything nice. Wide sound stage, 3d sound, warm mids, crystal clear highs. I love them for Vinyl.

The Amperex have a little more mid warmth than RCA ECC83 to me but not as much as the Raytheons.

Joe08867

I hate this. All this talk about Tubes makes me want to go out and get a tube setup going again.

Damn you all to hell!!!!!!!! :cheesygrin:

heiney9

I have a 1961 (large halo) Valvo 12AX7 made in Heerlen Holland currently in that postion. I agree, I actually prefer the Holland made Philips tubes to the Blackburn made Mullard tubes, exceptions for the long plate Mullard which is way too much $$$ these days.

The combo I am using currently is spectacular, but I'm always looking to make sure there isn't a more enjoyable combo out there, but yes damn it to hell it gets expensive when you have 5 tube pieces of gear that use various types of tubes :eek:

I am looking into Raytheon's my favorites are from the late 50's, black plates in other rigs. I have line on a pair of Sylvania JHS-5751 3-mica black plates, but I haven't gotten a price quote yet, probably pretty spendy as they are considered on of the top 3 5751's made.

I should just leave things alone, but I can't :cheesygrin:

H9

P.s. I find the RCA 12AX7 long black plates to have more midrange warmth than the Holland made Amperex/Valvo/Philips made tubes. Never heard a short gray plate version of the RCA. Not sure what all the fuss is about the RCA 12AU7 clear-tops, very forward in my rig, but still need more evaluation. So far my least favorite, but then I have about 4-5 other combo's of tubes to try it with.

headrott

Organ and Dawgfish summed it up nicely for the Tele smooth plates. If you have the Ei's, you have 85% of the Teles. and the sound they put out. The silver plate Ei's you brought up a week ago have a little more sparkle in the high end than the Teles and grey plate Ei's and make them not as sterile sounding. Personally, I would buy the Ei silver plates before the Telefunkens. Of course that is my opinion, but for the money the silver plate Ei's are worth the money much more thean the Telefunken tubes. The Telefunken smooth plates are somewhat sterile sounding, when compared to long plate Mullards and especially RCA black plate 12AX7's. Valvo/Amperex/Philips (Holland made) 12AX7's are in between the Teles. and RCA black plates. I have a quad of Amperex/Philips large halo getter short plate 12AX7's and tried them in my DAC. I definately prefer the RCA black plates and 50's Mullard long plates to the Amperex/Philips tubes.

As you know Brock, in the end you need to ask what ultimate sound you are going for. A balancing act of tubes can yield outstanding results or could land you a cacophony of sound from your equipment.

heiney9

Actually the tone, clarity, soundstage I am currently getting with the tube combo I'm using is pretty fantastic at this point. Since I have the Ei's I'm probably going to pass on the TFK's for the moment. Perhaps I should just enjoy it as is for awhile, because it's pretty well dialed in at this point. I was going to spring for some RCA 6L6GC's, but the SED =C= seem to do the job very nicely.

H9

Dawgfish

H9,

Check your PM inbox.

Steve

schwarcw

I've heard and own both the smooth and ribbed plate 12AX7 TFKs. To me they sound about the same. I did not find them analytical. Just a touch of warm from neutral in my EL84 integrateds (Scott and Fisher). YMMV

schwarcw

Brock, just to add another variable for you, try the 7025 tube which is a quieter equivalent of the 12AX7. I believe that TAD makes a new version of this. Originals can be found by RCA, Telefunken, Sylvania and others. They are rare but not overly pricey. These will twinkle.

heiney9

Popped in the Ei smooth long plate ECC83's pre-war NOS tubes. Had them warming up and playing for the past 3-4 hours. Pretty impressive for a somewhat current tube. Very quite and "alive" in the midrange, nice top end. Bass falters as it's a bit undefined and "lumpy" and loose, not too bad though. Great instrument separation, dead quiet, clear with a moderate midrange emphasis. Highs are sweet and slightly recessed, but still clear. Soundstage has good separation, but it's narrower and shorter than something like the Valvo Heerlen tube, but still gives a good sense of space, not the most dynamic tube I've heard. Just in a different way.

Overall a very nice tube, nicer than I expected based on how horrible the QC was on these tubes. I think I got some really good ones. These will be fun to roll in once in awhile. So far they don't make the cut for extended listening time. Although I'll probably finish out the week with them to get them good and broken in. There seems to be a bit of artificialness in the lower mid-bass that has me scratching my head, a slight "hollowness". It's not what I'm used too.

Sounds best with vocal and acoustic music.

I did listen to these previously in the Norh, but didn't really give them a good work out.

H9

heiney9

I'll use Dawgfish's term "mechanical" for the lower mid-bass issue.

Still overall not a bad tube, but in the end I have a hard time being drawn into some of the music. Example - Keb Mo sounds really great, Patty Larkin sounds a little dry and mechanical.

H9

TNHNDYMAN

H9-
If you are still interested, I'd be happy to let you test drive some Telefunken 12AX7's just to get a feel for them in your system. Shoot me a PM w/ address and you can try them for couple weeks or a month before sending back to me.

headrott

heiney9 wrote: »

Popped in the Ei smooth long plate ECC83's pre-war NOS tubes. Had them warming up and playing for the past 3-4 hours. Pretty impressive for a somewhat current tube. Very quite and "alive" in the midrange, nice top end. Bass falters as it's a bit undefined and "lumpy" and loose, not too bad though. Great instrument separation, dead quiet, clear with a moderate midrange emphasis. Highs are sweet and slightly recessed, but still clear. Soundstage has good separation, but it's narrower and shorter than something like the Valvo Heerlen tube, but still gives a good sense of space, not the most dynamic tube I've heard. Just in a different way.

Overall a very nice tube, nicer than I expected based on how horrible the QC was on these tubes. I think I got some really good ones. These will be fun to roll in once in awhile. So far they don't make the cut for extended listening time. Although I'll probably finish out the week with them to get them good and broken in. There seems to be a bit of artificialness in the lower mid-bass that has me scratching my head, a slight "hollowness". It's not what I'm used too.

Sounds best with vocal and acoustic music.

I did listen to these previously in the Norh, but didn't really give them a good work out.

H9

Brock, are they the "silver long plate" Ei tubes you were thinking of buying or the grey plates you already had?

heiney9

TNHNDYMAN wrote: »

H9-
If you are still interested, I'd be happy to let you test drive some Telefunken 12AX7's just to get a feel for them in your system. Shoot me a PM w/ address and you can try them for couple weeks or a month before sending back to me.

That would be great! Probably on the month plan as it's spotty when I actually have time to sit down and listen. I'll be in touch, thanks for the offer.

headrott wrote: »

Brock, are they the "silver long plate" Ei tubes you were thinking of buying or the grey plates you already had?

No these are pre-war gray long plates in blue and yellow Philips boxes. They have the customary "Nish" mark on them, but no date as far as I can tell. Not a bad tube, but not without some nagging minor flaws.

reeltrouble1

I used them in the Dodd MLP and they were excellent, only thing I found better has been the BAT 6h30. The smooth plates delivered a solid dose of musicality, nice highs, bass. I was using sonic caps as well, so all in all a nice sounding pre-amp with some carver 9t and later BAT vk-500 amplifiers I used during my sand days.

Tubes Rule
Paypal sucks
That is All.

RT1