DAC's.. Are we entering a new mainstream digital era ?

polkfarmboy

I had hardly heard about DAC's before joining and never really knew what they did exactly. Now fully aware I notice new models popping up more than ever and price to performance ratio getting better. Is this the start of a whole new industry and have we just scratched the surface?

What do you think is around the corner in the next few years?

Will new chips get designed for cheaper units that will better what we are paying top dollar for right now?

As digital downloading is becoming more and more popular it now seems mandatory to have a DAC

DMara

polkfarmboy wrote: »

IAs digital downloading is becoming more and more popular it now seems mandatory to have a DAC

So do you have a DAC?

heiney9

I have had dac's since about 1996 so while they may have a higher profile for computer based audio, they have been around for quite some time.

H9

polkfarmboy

Do I have a "stand alone" dac? Not at the moment as I sold it a while back but it was bellow $200

I'm still reading up on all the new DAC's but have a feeling that if I jump in now then something better will come out that knocks my socks off for cheaper.

I do know that dacs have been out for quite sometime but now we have higher and higher sampling rates on the dac's and high quality downloads are becoming more readily available. I have noticed in audio magazines that they are becoming key components and manufacturers are producing more. The variety's of DAC's out there is getting larger and new chips are being designed for this demand thats growing faster than ever before

falconcry72

polkfarmboy wrote: »

... Now fully aware I notice new models popping up more than ever...

lol, you think that's a coincidence?

I've used a handful of different DACs, with designs dating back about 15 years. In my experience, the quality of the analog section makes the biggest difference in sound, and is more critical for hifi than is the chip or sampling rate, though a good chip is mandatory. The 15 year old DAC mentioned above sounded better to me than several newer designs with high sampling rates, up-converting, etc...

tonyb

Ditto ^^^^^

Dennis Gardner

DACs are about as "mainstream" as phono preamps of the early stereo days. They mirror each others existance very closely in their respective eras and will almost always be included as a "built-in" within mainstream receiver/integrated/console solutions. They are just simply another improvement tweak that hobbiest/professionals have determined are useful and niche companies have seen as a profit avenue. It is the same in pro audio/recording with microphone preamps. They are all incremental improvements as a tweak in getting just that right tone/timbre.

I've been using one since 1996 myself and prefer it to built in solutions to reduce glare within my systems. Many of us that came from the vinyl era seem to adopt the improvement offered as early players really lacked the smoothness we sought.

When my wife questions why I need another external piece of gear I ask her why she needs a purse when her jeans have pockets....

mdaudioguy

DACs as separate units are no more mainstream than any other audio separates. As separates, I'm pretty sure they'll never become more than a niche market item. Probably 99% use built-in DACs.

EndersShadow

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I'm still reading up on all the new DAC's but have a feeling that if I jump in now then something better will come out that knocks my socks off for cheaper.

By that mentality you will never get one because prices will keep going down on them each year as new models hit the floor. You might as well take the plunge now.

heiney9

falconcry72 wrote: »

lol, you think that's a coincidence?

I've used a handful of different DACs, with designs dating back about 15 years. In my experience, the quality of the analog section makes the biggest difference in sound, and is more critical for hifi than is the chip or sampling rate, though a good chip is mandatory. The 15 year old DAC mentioned above sounded better to me than several newer designs with high sampling rates, up-converting, etc...

This is very, very true. I updated my Adcom which was manufactured in about 1996 with better op-amps and coupling caps as well as fresh power supply caps and none of this new breed of gazillion upsampling, new chipsets can touch it until you get into the units that take some care in the analog section by using discrete components. I have an Audio GD NFB-3 and IMO the Adcom bettered it by a fairly wide margin. Granted the upgrades and new retail of the Adcom made it more expensive, but IMO, some of the sub $500 units should be able to compete. Especially if they have these new chipsets and parts.

Does the Audio GD NFB-3 sound bad? Hell no, it sound very, very good for it's price point, but the Adcom was signicantly better in key areas. The other little wonder DAC is the Keces DA-151. High quality parts and very close attention to the analog section as well as the power supply helps this little star shine well beyond it's price point. There are some nice sounding units out there, but most are average or sound very similar to each other.

H9

heiney9

In a nutshell, there are some advancements that have been made because of more sophisticated chipsets, but in the end you can use all the best digital processing chipsets on the planet but if the analog section and especially the power supply section are compromised then so will the sound. The key areas many of these more budget friendly dac's compromise in is the analog section and power supply.

H9

cstmar01

I agree that if you have the mentality that you want to wait for something better you are going to never get a DAC. Digital tech changes so quick and with that comes lower price points and better units. I would say get something that you like now and stick with it for awhile.

Honestly I like the idea of what Schiit Audio did and was trying to make the unit modular in design so you can change things out as they come along. You can go nuts looking at everything but its the sound of it that matters and also its not the flavor of the month. So many good DAC's out there that can be older and still sound good but because people are so worried about it being older don't give it a chance.

EndersShadow

cstmar01 wrote: »

Honestly I like the idea of what Schiit Audio did and was trying to make the unit modular in design so you can change things out as they come along.

I concur, but from talking to some folks about NAD's AVR's which have a modular design as well they said conceptually it was awesome and should work, but practically it was a nightmare for them when they tried it on any of the units.

So how they implemented their design will be key in if its actually a selling point or just a "eh we tried" kinda deal. I hope its the former rather than the latter myself :biggrin:

falconcry72

cstmar01 wrote: »

...So many good DAC's out there that can be older and still sound good but because people are so worried about it being older don't give it a chance.

Very true. There's a 21 year old ARC DAC-1 that's been on my local craigslist for months at about 500 bucks. It retailed for 3k. I bet that things sounds killer, and would probably smoke any sub $1000 or sub $1500 modern DAC on redbook material. Of course it can't accept hi-res stuff, but for CD's or or anything 44.1, it would offer major bang for the buck.

heiney9

falconcry72 wrote: »

Very true. There's a 21 year old ARC DAC-1 that's been on my local craigslist for months at about 500 bucks. It retailed for 3k. I bet that things sounds killer, and would probably smoke any sub $1000 or sub $1500 modern DAC on redbook material. Of course it can't accept hi-res stuff, but for CD's or or anything 44.1, it would offer major bang for the buck.

Not so sure you can make a blanket statement like that, as the parts are 21years old so I'm sure a refresh of caps is in order and I KNOW certain popular newer op-amps (assuming this uses them at some point) are leaps and bounds better. But as a general statement I do agree 100% with you.

I am not a fan of hi-rez simply because just like always we are at the mercy of the recording engineer/producer and record exec's. It's become such a buzz word to charge more that I think in many cases it's not "true" hi-rez and the recording quality can still vary, so riding JUST the hi-rez train, I think there are bound to be a large amount of disappointments. WHich is why I don't care so much about it.

H9

cnh

Dude, you must know how it works by now: "If there is a market, They will come!" and they have and have been.

Nonetheless, nothing really goes away, does it; tubes, LPs, TTs, CDPs, SACD players, etc. DACs are just another "potential" addition to your equipment.

And let's face it. The DAC is at least as old as the first CD. Stand alone units came later!

I don't use a DAC, but if and when I need one, there is an input on the HK CDP below that has asynchronous abilities. Not bad for the price, boys!

cnh