Digital Room Correction Advice

audiocr381ve

Alright, so I want to mess with some room correction in the name of having some fun and gaining more experience in our beloved hobby. I'd like to also say that I recently built eight 24x48" absorption panels and understand the importance of room treatments. The eight panels I built had an absolutely phenomenal effect in my listening/living room but failed the WAF, so they went up in my office where I record my own music (or at least am starting too). My main system is now in our living room and acts as a 2 channel & HT system but 90% music and 10% movies. We have high ceilings and I did mange to convince the wife to let me hang three of my panels in a place that doesn't draw the eye much, and surprisingly it got rid of all flutter echo (nerd out!). My living room is carpeted but with the high ceilings the room has a nice open sound. Pics soon...

Here's my setup:

NAD CDP Transport > Channel Isands VDA-2 DAC > Adcom GFP-750 Preamp > Parasound HCA-750a amp > Dynaudio Audience 70 speakers.

I'm really proud of where my system is now. I've gone through seasons of clearing out gear and wanting to focus on other things but the bug bites hard every time I try to get away from this hobby. I'm finally into some great separates and have plans of adding a Dared SL2000a and Squeezebox Touch in the future.

So here's what I want to do... I want to mess around with room correction and see what happens. I need some help on where exactly to start. Do I need to buy some software and a mic to do some measurements first? Is their a piece of hardware that comes with software and a mic that will do it for me? If so, where do I add it in the chain? Maybe the Adcom GFP-750 processor loop? Or in between the preamp and amp? Or before the preamp? Need advice...

I've been wanting to do something like this for years and I'd love to have software, a mic, and hardware that I could use to analyze any room for recording music as well. Seems like such a helpful tool.

All advice welcome! I'd love to here your thoughts on how I should proceed. Thanks guys!

newrival

Look at TACT, deqx, or Spatial audio software

I prefer the latter, but each are excellent.

heiney9

Too bad the room treatments didn't pass the WAF, because that's where it's at. Perhaps subliminal tapes played at night while she is sleeping will help.

H9

newrival

Room correction has been shown to improve even treated rooms. It is the future of audio (some would argue it's the present) but there will always be those stubborn snobs, curmudgeons, and/or purists that won't adopt it.

If you can swing the spatial software, I recommend it above all others. it allows professional engineers to tailor your system remotely as well as give you the ability to manipulate the parameters to your taste. It utilizes the pureVinyl/pureMusic software ( which is awesome on it's own, with the added benefit of being a music server (as the software is installed on a Mac either supplied by you or them).

An excellent review can be found here (pages 4 and 5, specifically): http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/emerald/1.html

And an exeprt from the the review summation by Srajan Ebaen: "I'll go as far as saying that anyone spending the $3.000 on this software—packaged as it is with the necessary microphone and priceless setup consultation—will make the very best $3K investment anyone could at present possibly make anywhere in audio."

The software, by the way, works with any speaker setup and configuration.

SolidSqual

Spatial HD is nothing short of amazing. Until I recently moved into my new house, I lived in an apartment where putting up acoustic treatments involved too much damage to the walls. Spatial HD corrected the acoustics of my room with unbelievable accuracy. I seriously question whether I will even treat my new listening space given the excellent performance of Spatial HD alone. I imagine instead of hanging ugly acoustic treatments on the walls, I will instead decorate with attractive objects that disperse or even absorb some of the sound. The main treatment will however come from Spatial.

Mike

SCompRacer

I've tried room EQ with my hybrid ESL speakers and while it is great at taming peaks, filling nulls has limitations. My departed friend Norm had nulls exceeding -20dB at multiple frequencies in his small room. I had a couple at -12dB with one of my room setups. The old rule was never exceed 4-6dB of frequency boost less you damage your amp or speakers. Ethan Winer has writen articles about room EQ limitations, athough he does sell acoustic treatments which could be considered biased. I'm not convinced EQ alone will solve all room problems and will keep my acoustic treatments. I can see a combination of both working better than one alone. Good luck in your quest.

EDIT: Just curious, was the WAF fail due to fabric colors or just them being there? With all the fabric and even graphic options, acoustic treatments can be less offensive.

markmarc

SolidSqual wrote: »

Spatial HD is nothing short of amazing. Until I recently moved into my new house, I lived in an apartment where putting up acoustic treatments involved too much damage to the walls. Spatial HD corrected the acoustics of my room with unbelievable accuracy. I seriously question whether I will even treat my new listening space given the excellent performance of Spatial HD alone. I imagine instead of hanging ugly acoustic treatments on the walls, I will instead decorate with attractive objects that disperse or even absorb some of the sound. The main treatment will however come from Spatial.

I'm very curious about Spatial HD, much of it because Clayton Shaw is the man behind its development. I like how he has a much less expensive version for those who use PureMusic. Once I get my laptop boosted to 8 gigs I'll have to seriously consider it.

Face

Standalone DSP units are $$$.

Using a PC or Mac for a source, it's easy. J. River has an easy to use interface for DSP.

As for measurements, this is what I use for speaker design and tuning in a room: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-792

SolidSqual

markmarc wrote: »

I'm very curious about Spatial HD, much of it because Clayton Shaw is the man behind its development. I like how he has a much less expensive version for those who use PureMusic. Once I get my laptop boosted to 8 gigs I'll have to seriously consider it.

What sets Spatial HD apart from other DSP correction devices is the fact that Clayton does the measuring and adjustment himself. Spatial HD is not an algorithm making best guesses. (IT was originally, but Clayton scrapped it.) By remotely measuring, clayton can compensate based on his experience with certain speakers or certain room measurement data. I switch the room correction on and off all the time and am in wonder of its effect.

One day I would like to try this:http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/trinnov/1.html

Polkie2009

Check out Rives Audio, they make the PARC.

audiocr381ve

Face wrote: »

Standalone DSP units are $$$.

Using a PC or Mac for a source, it's easy. J. River has an easy to use interface for DSP.

As for measurements, this is what I use for speaker design and tuning in a room: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-792

Thanks for all the responses guys.

Face, if I pick one of those guys up, what is the process? Do I buy an external EQ and keep taking measurements with the provided mic and software until I come up with something reasonably flat?

Face

An external "EQ" is not versatile enough and will add grunge to your system. It's best to make changes while the data is still in the digital realm.

audiocr381ve

Face wrote: »

An external "EQ" is not versatile enough and will add grunge to your system. It's best to make changes while the data is still in the digital realm.

So how would it work if I was going from my iMac to a Squeezbox Touch wirelessly?

Face

SolidSqual would be the one to ask about Mac software.

audiocr381ve

Guys, is their a cheap way to get room measurements for my office system? I just purchased jRiver so I'll have the capability to make some corrections.

This is just way out of my range http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-792

Is their something less expensive?

Thanks

FTGV

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Is their something less expensive?

Thanks

This and a calibrated mic.http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

audiocr381ve

FTGV wrote: »

This and a calibrated mic.http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

Sweet! Where can I find a good mic?

wingnut4772

I'm not a big fan of room correction. At least not Audyssey. I did love my SMS1 for subs though.

audiocr381ve

wingnut4772 wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of room correction. At least not Audyssey. I did love my SMS1 for subs though.

I've ready treated my room. I have 7 absorption panels covering first reflections, front and rear wall, and even the ceiling. Just want to experiment a little more and see what happens in the office system.

EndersShadow

wingnut4772 wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of room correction. At least not Audyssey. I did love my SMS1 for subs though.

Really, even with the Integra's XT32? That kinda stinks :sad:

wingnut4772

EndersShadow wrote: »

Really, even with the Integra's XT32? That kinda stinks :sad:

Well the jury is still out on that one. XT32 is a huge improvement over XT. I'm still listening to both. There's a
possibility it could win me over. I still think a well treated room should be first - even though I don't have one lol.

Erik Tracy

What about those that like their analog components? Like a cart, or tube pre, or a tubed CD?

I'm still not convinced that DRC is the 'cure all' for room acoustics and the detriment it would have on multiple domain conversions (A-D then D-A)...eg...why even bother with analog source components if there are multiple conversions in the digital domain?

And, who is to say that the DRQ's provided by OEMs are 'right'? Is 'flat' the holy grail? How does that account for different hearing or personal preferences?

SolidSqual

Erik Tracy wrote: »

What about those that like their analog components? Like a cart, or tube pre, or a tubed CD?

I'm still not convinced that DRC is the 'cure all' for room acoustics and the detriment it would have on multiple domain conversions (A-D then D-A)...eg...why even bother with analog source components if there are multiple conversions in the digital domain?

And, who is to say that the DRQ's provided by OEMs are 'right'? Is 'flat' the holy grail? How does that account for different hearing or personal preferences?

My output is digitally corrected even with my TT and it sounds effing unreal with tubes or solid state amps.

wingnut4772

Just an update on my Audyssey issues. Seems I had a bad mic. It sounds great now.

audiocr381ve

Where do I get a mic to run with Rew?

FTGV

A must read for would be REW users.http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spl-meters-mics-calibration-sound-cards/10001-rew-cabling-connection-basics.html I believe PE sell both the Dayton and Behringer mics mentioned.