Integrate an LSiM with an RTiA

Geoff4rfc

Major dilemma for sure, looking for a little input.

I have had M70's in the wide channel, positioned outside of my RTiA9's.

I have since sold my Monitor series and plan to replace the 70's with a second pair of A9's.

Suddenly, I have this wild a** idea, that a pair of LSiM703's will work as good if not better than the 2nd pair of A9's.

I'm hoping I won't be in danger of a "noticeable" timbre match.

leroyjr1

Sell the A9's and go with the better LSIm series. They're better for both music and HT.

Geoff4rfc

Would love to, just can't put the effort and finance into another full upgrade. I was hoping to just cut a small corner here.

leroyjr1

$1500 speakers isn't worth using as widths IMO. Just get a set of RTI a3's.

Geoff4rfc

I originally thought that myself, but after using M70's as wides, I learned that with DSX, the wides not only were active during movement scenes, but are active during select stationary scenes, especially during a musical score.

So the wides, at times, are adding double the sound to the front stage. So, IMO, having a good quality speaker in this position is very beneficial.

leroyjr1

Very true but I couldn't see using a width speaker that was better than my fronts. It should be the other way around.

Geoff4rfc

That's a damned good point Leroy, I considered that myself in fact, I was even visualizing the 703's as mains and moving the existing A9's to the side.

leroyjr1

Is this system used for HT or music? I'd like to get my ears on width and height channels in the near future. Just wondering if the difference is worth it. I'm currently wanting height channels for my LSIm HT setup but can't fathom spending $1500 on them. Might look into the tl350 satellite for heights.

Geoff4rfc

I use it for both. I go to pure audio mode during 2ch music and with 300wpc going through the A9's, music is pretty awesome. I could just imagine an even better sound having a pair of 703's in there for my 2ch.

I'll soon be upgrading my avr to a pre, the DHC-80.3, it allows you to do a 9.2 utilizing both wides and heights simultaneously and was planning on a second set of FXiA6's for heights. In your case, not sure what to suggest other than throwing a couple of different speakers in there to see how much sound you can get through that channel.

JimAckley

The LSiM703s are epic to say the least, but I honestly wouldn't use them as your wides unless you had other LSiMs as your mains. I speak from experience when I tell you that the two lines have different sound signatures still; closer to eachother than the days of the previous generation models (RTi & LSi), but still different nonetheless. Save your dollaz and get the A3s. I had a pair of A3s and loved 'em, even on the crap receiver I was using at the time.

If you do decide to get the 703s, sell off your A9s and get the 705s. I had the privilege of demoing a set for 3 weeks before LSAF, and believe me when I say they will blow your mind.

Geoff4rfc

Thanks Jim, so different enough that the 703 as mains would not blend "well enough" with the CSiA6?

falconcry72

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Very true but I couldn't see using a width speaker that was better than my fronts. It should be the other way around.

+1000.

I am not a fan of width of height speakers, but I owned the A9's for while, I now own LSi's, and I've heard the LSiM's, and I'll tell you that the LSiM's are much more worthy of the Front position than are the A9's... especially if you are using a sub. I just don't get the point of integrating LSiM's with RTi's; it's almost blasphemous. Even if you used the LSiM's as fronts, now you wouldn't have a timbre matched center. None of it makes sense to me. Just use RTi's everywhere.

JimAckley

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

Thanks Jim, so different enough that the 703 as mains would not blend "well enough" with the CSiA6?

IMO, not quite. You can have spot-on matching bookies for $400 from Polk Direct (and probably cheaper when you mention that you're a CP member), or spend an extra $1100 on speakers that don't quite match, but are still insanely badass by themselves. If you're determined to go LSiM, do your whole front stage. You'll never look back. Nor will you have anything left in your wallet

[pandorasbox]
If you're really looking for that extra edge, get the A3s, then start looking into modding your crossovers.
[/pandorasbox]

Geoff4rfc

falconcry72 wrote: »

Just use RTi's everywhere.

JimAckley wrote: »

IMO, not quite. You can have spot-on matching bookies for $400 from Polk Direct (and probably cheaper when you mention that you're a CP member), or spend an extra $1100 on speakers that don't quite match, but are still insanely badass by themselves. If you're determined to go LSiM, do your whole front stage. You'll never look back. Nor will you have anything left in your wallet

[pandorasbox]
If you're really looking for that extra edge, get the A3s, then start looking into modding your crossovers.
[/pandorasbox]

The new car smell is still on the RTiA's from my fairly recent upgrade over the monitor line.

I had assured my wife an upgrade to the LSiM's were inconceivable (she sighs and rolls her eyes every time she hears me say that), and for a moment, my Frankenstein side took over and saw a way to have the best of both worlds without over spending and without my wife ripping my sack.

But I'll rejoin reality and keep my set up series matched. Dang I was close

mystik610

Why not sell the A9's all together, drop the the idea of using wide speakers at all, and pick up a pair of 705's and the LSiM center? I'd much rather have a higher quality Left+Right+Center, than a lesser quality Left+Right+Center+ wides up front. A high quality sound-stage and higher quality imaging eliminates the need for the use of extra speakers to fill in the 'width' of the front soundstage.

I'd also much rather have a matching front soundstage with 3 front speakers, than a mis-matched soundstage with 5 speakers. Mis-matching the fronts ruins the imaging and soundstage IMO, and adding 2 mis-matched wides would sound worse than a cleaner, more cohesive 3 speaker front soundstage.

If you're dead set on using wides, then I'd stick with the RTiA line.

falconcry72

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

...and without my wife ripping my sack...

lol!:biggrin:

I'd much rather have a higher quality Left+Right+Center, than a lesser quality Left+Right+Center+ wides up front.

Totally agree.

If you're dead set on using wides, then I'd stick with the RTiA line.

Agree again.



edit: just wanted to add that I think the A9's are super badass for HT.:cool:

Geoff4rfc

falconcry72 wrote: »

lol!:biggrin:

edit: just wanted to add that I think the A9's are super badass for HT.:cool:

Thanks, I appreciate that! My A9's are less than 6 months old, my center and surrounds are less than that so I'll stick with the RT series for awhile.

I'll eventually upgrade to the LSiMs, just a little further down the road.

I disagree with mystic in this regard, I think proper use of the wide channel will not only widen your front stage regardless of the quality of your set up, but will also add more musical sound for H.T. But I do agree that the front stage should match for a seamless set up.

Thanks for the input.

mystik610

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

I disagree with mystic in this regard, I think proper use of the wide channel will not only widen your front stage regardless of the quality of your set up, but will also add more musical sound for H.T. But I do agree that the front stage should match for a seamless set up.

Thanks for the input.

Not saying that there aren't benefits to using wides.....I just don't think that two sets of towers up front (and the power to drive them) is the best use of one's budget. I'd rather have one set of LSiM 705's (or one of the many outstanding tower speakers in the $3,000 price range), than two sets of A9's up front.

When it comes to speakers, quality over quantity IMO.

I will say that a high quality pair of speakers up front can do just as good of a job (probably better) of creating a sense of width in the soundstage as adding a second set of speakers....without perverting the sonic accuracy of the original soundtrack with matrixed channels. Creating a sense of depth and dimension is the whole point of audio imaging afterall.

Personally I don't think the use of wides is ever 'proper', as there is no discrete 9.1 content. I'd rather hear the soundtrack as intended.

JimAckley

I'd rather have modded RTiA with wides/heights than stock LSiMs in LCR. but you can't go wrong either way honestly. Get some A3s or A5s for your wides, upgrade all of your crossovers, and enjoy

I personally haven't heard wides but I've heard systems with height speakers that blew my mind. I've got nothing against 9.1 setups, and if setup properly in the right room they are better than 7.1

On a side note mystik, did you only get into surround when 5.1 digital came along?

Geoff4rfc

mystik610 wrote: »

Not saying that there aren't benefits to using wides.....I just don't think that two sets of towers up front (and the power to drive them) is the best use of one's budget. I'd rather have one set of LSiM 705's (or one of the many outstanding tower speakers in the $3,000 price range), than two sets of A9's up front.

When it comes to speakers, quality over quantity IMO.

I will say that a high quality pair of speakers up front can do just as good of a job (probably better) of creating a sense of width in the soundstage as adding a second set of speakers....without perverting the sonic accuracy of the original soundtrack with matrixed channels. Creating a sense of depth and dimension is the whole point of audio imaging afterall.

Personally I don't think the use of wides is ever 'proper', as there is no discrete 9.1 content. I'd rather hear the soundtrack as intended.

Most everything you've mentioned here is right on, but I can tell there's one thing you haven't experience yet; before I acquired my FX surrounds, I was using M40's for wides, M70s for surrounds (RTiA9 L/R CSiA6 C).

That set up was really cool looking but not quite the sound I was hoping for with the M70's in surround.

I swapped the 70's and 40's putting the M40's in surround and the M70's outside my A9's, the result made a huge difference. Musical scores filled two sets of towers on either side of the center, in incredible front sound stage.

Being able to hear a soundtrack as it's intended? Here's just one simple example; ever see the true story movie of Vince Papale in Invincible? One scene where Vince is talking to the bar owner, you know there's a pool room off to the side, you don't see it, but you can hear the cue ball smacking the other billiard balls over in the corner of your room, you actually get the sensation you have a pool room off to the side.

And the channels may very well be matrixed, but sonic accuracy is far from perverted, even with an M70 wide next to an A9 the sound was seamless.

The A9's are no slouch, and ever since I've sold my monitor series, I've noticed a huge difference without the extra set of towers up front.

As much as I'd love to just dive in and redo my system with the LSiMs, after some thought, I may just take Jim's advice and get a set of A5's to throw up there, hell, who knows, I may even just get another set of A9's :eek:

Geoff4rfc

The deal is done!! The RTiA's have been posted on local CL and the venture to acquire the highly acclaimed LSiM series is in motion!

Thanks a lot Stilly, it's all your fault anyway.

Oh yeah, and if my wife catches wind of this, just call me sackless

txcoastal1

Just remember the old saying
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission"

Drenis

So what did ya get?

Geoff4rfc

txcoastal1 wrote: »

Just remember the old saying
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission"

My wife knows me too well, when I told her six months ago that the A9's were my last upgrade, she rolled her eyes and, "yeah, for the next five minutes". she'll just rip my sack and life will go on.

Drenis wrote: »

So what did ya get?

My upgrade is hinging on selling my RTiA's. They range from 1mo to 5mo old for five speakers so I'm asking just under top dollar for the 5.0 set.

If I get my asking price, I'm going all out with 707, 703, 706 and 702 for a 7.2 set up.

EndersShadow

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

If I get my asking price, I'm going all out with 707, 703, 706 and 702 for a 7.2 set up.

Where do you live so I can see how long it would take me to drive out there to listen to that setup lol...... :biggrin:

leroyjr1

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

My wife knows me too well, when I told her six months ago that the A9's were my last upgrade, she rolled her eyes and, "yeah, for the next five minutes". she'll just rip my sack and life will go on.



My upgrade is hinging on selling my RTiA's. They range from 1mo to 5mo old for five speakers so I'm asking just under top dollar for the 5.0 set.

If I get my asking price, I'm going all out with 707, 703, 706 and 702 for a 7.2 set up.

To save a little coin the 705's are just as good and my favorite out of the bunch. That'll save you $1000 and you won't be compromising on sound.

Geoff4rfc

leroyjr1 wrote: »

To save a little coin the 705's are just as good and my favorite out of the bunch. That'll save you $1000 and you won't be compromising on sound.

That's good to know, I was under the impression the 707 was better in the midrange than the 705, but hear say is a tough thing to go by. I've been reading up on as much info as possibe from ears-on writers trying to figure which speaker is the way to go. I wouldn't mind saving the extra coin but if the bigger speaker is the way to go, that's the way I'd want to go.

Geoff4rfc

Well, never did get an offer or any reply to my ad for selling my RTiA series on CL. One person did reply just to ask me about my Epik subwoofer.

So instead, I worked on improving my current set up; I upgraded my display, added another Empire and added a second set of A9's as wides, I know I know, so many have already stated that a scenario like that would be overkill or even unnecessary.

After much personal debate, I decided, the midrange is the best on the A9 than both A7 and A5. The Onkyo's are known for having stellar wide channels and I've come to experience that with my own set up when using M70's as wides, so I'm not skimping on what I consider valuable sound.

So, I'm pretty happy where I'm at with the exception of yet to add a 5ch amp, upgrade my source player and most likely go with a 9.2 AVR. I'd seriously considered a pre, but after counting the cost, my path is clear cut.

Thanks to all that encouraged me in the LSiM direction.