1st ever tube amp

brianle

H9, can the tubes you bought on ebay replace ecc82 type tubes?

heiney9

brianle wrote: »

H9, can the tubes you bought on ebay replace ecc82 type tubes?

Yes, that's my understanding

See here:

http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm

brianle

Thanks h9

brianle

heiney9 wrote: »

you can buy some nice OS tubes and they will sound better, IMO. Just bought a quad of these for the 12AU7 spot. http://www.ebay.com/itm/130686487286?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 Direct replacement for 12AU7's. I love long plate tubes.


H9

How is this comparing to the 12AU7 RCA Clear Top in term of sound quality?
http://tubedepot.com/nos-12au7-ct.html

heiney9

Don't know yet. Just got the amp and I have RCA cleartops on the way as well as those I bought on Ebay. Should be here today. The ones at tube depot are much later versions, late 70's early 80's. I have found in general, with other RCA tubes, the 50's and 60's tubes are better sounding. Sort of the golden age of tubes. When you start looking at late 70's and 80's tubes from many of the manufacturer's the quality, craftsmanship and materials suffered quite a bit since they were in the decline. There are certainly exceptions. Think GEC KT77 and GEC KT88 and Golden Lion, etc. But those authentic NOS tubes cost a mint today.

All in all I'd still choose the late tubes over current production. That's just me and my opinion and it is based on a lot of listening. A late 70's or 80's Mullard won't compete with the 50's and 60's stuff but I still prefer it over what's being offered today.

H9

heiney9

Another thing to keep in mind is my new amp has 2 stages of input tubes so I won't just be hearing the 12AU7 as there is also a 12AX7 in the circuit. So it may take me awhile to actually figure out how much influence the 12AU7 position has relative to the 12AX7. I already have several 12AX7's to eventually roll.

My point being it could be a month before I can accurately comment about which is better (to me) the RCA 6350 long plate, RCA 12AU7 clear top or old stock Tung Sol 12AU7. Lots of variables to consider.

H9

organ

heiney9 wrote: »

I have to disagree. While there isn't a "need" to roll tubes he will get a lot better sound with better driver tubes. The EH EL34's are decent, the Winged C's are better IMO but they did jump a lot in price over the past year. But he could do much better at the 12AU7 spot and the nice thing is 12AU7''s are relatively inexpensive compared to 12AX7's. I have no use for current production driver tubes and for the cost of 12AU7's, you can buy some nice OS tubes and they will sound better, IMO. Just bought a quad of these for the 12AU7 spot. http://www.ebay.com/itm/130686487286?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 Direct replacement for 12AU7's. I love long plate tubes.

Either way enjoy but do experiment atleast at the 12AU7 position. My new amp has all Ruby tubes as stock tubes (6L6, 12AX7, 12UA7). Can't wait to get those mediocre performers out of there. Should have some new tubes arriving today.

H9

Fair enough. I guess we have slightly different tastes when it comes to tubes. After using the SED EL34 for about a year, I decided to roll my EL34EH back in last night. I can't really say one is better than the other. They're different. The EH has much more powerful bass, better HF/LF extension, but is neutral in the mids. it's hard for me to say one is better than the other. They're all good, just different flavours. That's why I collect them all and rotate once in a while. Easy for me to do because my amp only uses a pair of 34's.

As for NOS. For the past 10 years that I"ve been into tubes, I've hoarded quite a collection of my favorites, including Amperex BB 6DJ8, 60's Mullard 12AU7,Amperex globes, Mullard 6DJ8's, the most sought after Seiemens CCA 6922, Siemens triple mica 5817, Tele smooth plate, etc. 10 years ago when I was buying them, NOS was much more abundant and cheaper.

The NOS tubes are nice. But after going back and forth between NOS and current production, I enjoy them all. Sometimes, it's the combination of what driver and power tubes you're running together that can really impact the sound whether it's NOS, current tubes, or a combination of both.

The only NOS I'm running at the moment is the 5U3C rectifier in my cdp and int. The rest are current production. This is just imo, but honestly, if all NOS tubes were to suddenly disappear, I can't say I would miss them. I can easily live with today's offerings from Russia and China.

On my previous post, I did mention to Brian that the driver tubes are cheap to roll, BUT, there's no need to hurry anything. He's been listening for less than a week. I'm sure he's still getting used to the sound. A sudden upgrade this early in the game may not be noticable because he's still gettting used to the new sound.


Brian,
You will hear me say this quite often: becareful when buying NOS or slightly used tubes off ebay. Make sure the seller can be trusted or you've heard positive feedback from other who has purchased tubes from the particular seller.
The thing is, NOS supply is drying up. Online tube vendors are purchasing the higher grade stuff and there are a lot of people selling the rejects on ebay. NOw, there are excellent tube sellers on ebay as well, but too many shady ones too who are selling NOS but the lower grade ones with poor section matching, higher noise and microphonics, etc.
If you want to be completely safe, you can try thetubestore.com, upscaleaudio.com, tubedepot.com, and there are many others.
I'm not saying you should avoid ebay. Just take extra precaution when purchasing tubes there.

brianle

Thanks. For a tube newbie like me, I'm gonna stay away from ebay for now

heiney9

organ wrote: »

Fair enough. I guess we have slightly different tastes when it comes to tubes. After using the SED EL34 for about a year, I decided to roll my EL34EH back in last night. I can't really say one is better than the other. They're different. The EH has much more powerful bass, better HF/LF extension, but is neutral in the mids. it's hard for me to say one is better than the other. They're all good, just different flavours. That's why I collect them all and rotate once in a while. Easy for me to do because my amp only uses a pair of 34's.

I agree but one thing to make note of for new tube amp users, is not every tube is going to sound the same in different types of amps. What I hear and what Organ hears is based on our amp topology to a large degree, as well as the other tubes we are running. So this is a very general observation. I don't care for the EH's at all, my least favorite, in my amp running with the other tubes I have (various NOS 12AX7's). I have yet to hear a current production signal/driver tube that knocks my socks off. They all seem to be satisfactory, but I want mo' better sound. Some designs of amps and pre-amps respond better to tube rolling than others.

Perhaps I have been lucky, my pre-amp is the most sensitive with a 6V6 based push/pull integrated tube amp being a close 2nd. The difference between the current production Tung Sol 6V6GT and 50's RCA black plate/gray glass was nothing short of stunning as well as replacing the Tung Sol 6SL7 with RCA red base black plate 5962's or original 1945 Tung Sol 6SU7GTY's. Simply stunning to even the untrained listener.

I guess what I'm saying is it takes tube rolling and some time to experience it all and see what direction you want to go. Organ is content with many of the current offerings. I can't say that I am. There are some pretty good power tubes available but I just don't care for the driver tubes. In fact I am close to pulling the trigger on a quad of NOS Tung Sol 5881's for the new amp. They aren't cheap, but probably worth every penny of the $200 I'm probably going to spend. Hell, new matched quads of the Winged C SED 6L6 go for $150+.

H9

heiney9

brianle wrote: »

Thanks. For a tube newbie like me, I'm gonna stay away from ebay for now

Too bad, because there are some great deals out there. I've bought ALL of my tubes on Ebay from various sellers all over the world, mostly used and some brand new. With the exception of 2 transactions I have no issues. Out of over 100 deals and probably 300-400 tubes, no troubles. I will say I won't buy current production stock from EBAY because I think that's where you are seeing rejects more than from people selling off collections or pulls from old equipment.

You will either pay through the nose from a dealer for NOS tubes or they won't be available at all. Which means you'll likely miss out on some really great tubes. It's your choice and your $$$.

H9

brianle

heiney9 wrote: »

Out of over 100 deals and probably 300-400 tubes, no troubles.

H9

That's a lot of tubes :cheesygrin:

heiney9

Just do what's comfortable and at your own pace. Tubes are a LOT of fun. I have the type of personality where I don't want to wait. I find what I want, by research and start looking for it. But I also set a pretty hard $$$ ceiling since I know about what things sell for both on Ebay and from a dealer. I did read ALOT before making my tube purchases so I knew what questions to ask about contruction, labels and tube codes, etc., so I did/do have knowledge of what I was buying. So I am a lot more confident when shopping on Ebay. But there is risk, and up to a certain $$$ amount I'm willing to take on that risk because the reward has been great so far.

I bought some holy grail tubes that dealers sell for $300-400/pr., for less $100 as ANOS.

H9

brianle

I think I'm gonna try with the driver tubes first. Would this be a good buy ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-12AU7A-ECC82-Tubes-Clear-Top-All-Test-STRONG-as-NOS-Nice-/220917205075?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item336fb10853#ht_3666wt_1163

brianle

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-NOS-NIB-Amperex-12AU7-ECC82-Audio-Receiver-Guitar-Vacuum-Tubes-/140747303263?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20c531695f#ht_500wt_1193

organ

Holy crap H9! I can't believe you made that many transactions with only a few bad ones. You're very lucky. Wish all mine went as smooth as yours lol.

My best score was a little over 20 pieces of Amperex 6DJ8 (orange and red globes) that were pulls from old scopes.

You're correct about amp topology having a big influence on tube choice. I do remember being a lot more picky when I used an EL34 amp that was in Ultralinear configuration. Once I modded it to operate in triode, I was happy with them all. Since then, I've only used EL34 in triode. My current custom build is in triode as well. 5 tasty w/ch from each EL34.

You should start hoarding your favorite signal tubes before the prices soar throuugh the roof.

I know you're not fond of current production, but this is considered NOS now. The Ei 12AX7 which were produced on actual Telefunken machines are so close to the original. There are two versions. Grey plate and silver plates (aka Silver Bullets).

I think you're going to enjoy the 5881 and others in the 6L6 family. I played around with a few and enjoyed the sound.

Brian,
Those tubes are great. Looks like a good seller too with excellent feedback. From the two you listed, I prefer the Amperex.

heiney9

Organ, I do like the Ei's. Can't compare them to the original TFK's since I won't pay those prices. Generally TFK's are among my favorite tubes. You may be onto something with the ultralinear/EL34 thing. Last night I listened for a couple hours with SED Winged C El34's; Valvo (Heerlen Holland) 12AX7; RCA clear top 12AU7's and I was not moved. Granted I was exhausted and when that happens critical listening goes out the window. But I felt everyone of my familiar songs was very forward and bright and lacked most of that "tube magic". But it's way, way too early to tell, but I think I'll get on buying those original TS 5881's

Brian, just look for a tube seller that provides a lot of information and has good feedback and good pics, etc. I can tell right away for the tubes I'm familiar with by looking at photo's if things are legit. Organ is right I have been very lucky on EBAY with as many tubes and transactions I've done to have almost no issues. Have fun.

H9

brianle

H9 or organ,

Which one do you guys prefer and why ? thanks

GE 5814A
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-GE-JG-5814A-12AU7A-Vacuum-Tubes-Tested-BP-3-Mica-/120873466890?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c249ebc0a#ht_2086wt_1163

or

Amperex 12AU7
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-NOS-NIB-Amperex-12AU7-ECC82-Audio-Receiver-Guitar-Vacuum-Tubes-/140747303263?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20c531695f#ht_500wt_1413

heiney9

Of those two definitely the 3 mica black plate JG GE's. Sweet tubes, a little mellow with a great soundstage. I don't think the later Orange Globe Amperex are as good as the earlier white label Amperex.

H9

brianle

I think I'm gonna try this one. Hopefully it's compatible and gives me good results over the stock tube
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=270949720084&index=7&nav=SEARCH&nid=24036848897

organ

Never heard them but people say it's great. The prices for NOS has really jumped quite a bit. I remember seeing those for about $20/ea.
Hope you enjoy them. Let us know what you think.

brianle

Thanks organ. I just bought a pair from an european seller so it will take a while to get here.

heiney9

Very nice choice, I've heard they are really great and harder to find.

H9

brianle

Havent got the new tube yet but just side by side comparing the unison s6 with the rogue cronus magnum with kt120 output tubes and my friends and I prefer the warmer and sweeter sound of the unison s6 with stock tubes

brianle

Plugged in the Raytheon 5814a and I can can hear quicker and tighter bass. The sound is still smooth a bit more transparent and more details. Count me in as tube rolling believer

organ

Very cool. I find 5814's to be more precise than the 12AU7/ECC82 which are usually more on the euphoric side. Don't forget to try out some Mullard ECC82 (old shield logo Gt. Britain) which is a very popular tube. Prices are still reasonable.
Just becareful with tube rolling. You'll wonder where all your money went lol.

heiney9

I just received a pair of 1955 Sylvania black plate square getter 12AU7's, can't wait to try them. Also waiting on some 1956 Tung Sol 5751WA's (12AX7 equiv). Tube rolling will drain your bank account faster than a cheap ****.

brianle

So I've been listening the Raytheon 5814a for a couple of weeks and I switched back the stock EH 12au7 today and the differences were much more than when I switched from the stock tube to the Raytheon 5814a. I had to immediately switch back to the Raytheon :cheesygrin:

heiney9

Nothing better than Old stock tubes. I should be receiving my 1959 Raytheon 5814, windmill getters today.

Here's a nice blog I stumbled upon, all subjective but fun to read.

http://tubemaze.info/

Do your 5814's have the flat plates or the special tubes with the hump in the center of the plate w/ 3 holes drilled?

3 holes in the plate- supposed to be the better version





H9

brianle

Mine has 3 holes in the middle :cheesygrin:

timrhu

Gonna chime in here.
I use a Unison Unico, it's a hybrid and only uses tubes (12AU7s) in the input stage, fairly early version. When I first got the amp it had Mullard CV4003s installed but one of them didn't survive shipping. As I had to replace them anyway I went a bit crazy with tube rolling. What I ended up liking best are a pair of mil spec Sylvania 12AU7WAs (new old stock). I'm sure they're mil spec as they came in the original boxes the military used with FSNs (federal stock numbers) printed on the boxes.
One of these days I'll graduate to a full tube amp but I do enjoy the sound of this Unico.