FLAC playback error on sc-25

bansheesho

I grabbed the FLAC sampler pack from hdtracks.com today with the intent of setting up a music server on a hdd connected directly to the router via usb cable and then be controlled by my android phone. That part of the system works wonderful for mp3s... but for some reason I can't get the reciever to decode FLAC files it just errors out when the reciever is set as the decoder.

I can get the laptop to decode and play the FLAC files over the laptop speakers or through the headphone jack to the reciever... but I want to use the dac in the reciever.

If I try to send the flac file to the reciever wirelessly or via a hdmi cable it just gives me various errors depending on what program I am trying to send it from (I have tried wmp with codecs, bubbleupnp, and mediamonkey). The general idea of the error messages is "no compatible decoder found"

It shows on the specs for my reciever that it should be able to handle flac files.. so I am left scratching my head. Any ideas on how to fix this?

bansheesho

I should also mention that inorder to try and fix this I have also done the firmware update to HMG with no change in results.

I did also forget to mention that it also won't play the .flac files through the HMG menus either

bansheesho

Was there not also another firmware upgrade for these recievers recently.. I think to fix some kind of dolby issue? Supposed to be a dealer only thing but I heard that other people had gotten the files and were updating them on their own?

bansheesho

Maybe it has to do with the bit rate?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/SC-25_OperatingInstructions0421.pdf

According to the owners manual (page 78)

Sampling frequency 8 kHz, 16 kHz, 22 kHz, 32
kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz

Quantization bitrate 8 bit, 16 bit

So it looks like maybe it won't decode the higher quality files?

bansheesho

I can convert the files to 32 bit wav and play them.. Does anything get lost while doing this?

Drenis

FLAC is not a compatible format that the SC can play off USB.

tonyb

Drenis wrote: »

FLAC is not a compatible format that the SC can play off USB.

I believe thats correct. The way around it is to buy a seperate dac that has a usb connection, then digital out to the receiver. Or a usb/digital coax converter.

Sherardp

Not sure about playback, but I can answer in regards to firmware updates. There was a firmware update that was released some time back. This will fix HMG and networking issues, Dolby Digital + dropouts, and a few other known issues with earlier models. Updates will fix the SC-05,07,25,and 27. If I remember correctly the later models(SC -35 to current) were capable of reaching the internet for updates. You will be required to take the unit to a Pioneer Service center for the updates unless you have a rep come out to your residence. I decided against unplugging all that crap and had a rep visit my home. In the end I gave him a 6 pack of good American beer.

bansheesho

Well I am not trying to play flac files through usb... I am trying to play them over the network.. I have also tried to play them from the laptop to the receiver through hdmi cable.

Drenis

bansheesho wrote: »

Well I am not trying to play flac files through usb... I am trying to play them over the network.. I have also tried to play them from the laptop to the receiver through hdmi cable.

Through HDMI from the laptop wont be an issue. But it still wont play through the network connection. Not sure if they can now on the newer models.

tonyb

Did you try an MP3 file to see if it plays ?

bansheesho

Did you try an MP3 file to see if it plays ?

Yes, mp3 and wav files play perfectly fine... and when the laptop is doing the decoding of the .flac files and then being sent to reciever over a headphone style 3.5mm jack it works, so I know the .flac files are not corrupted

If I try to send the .flac files directly to the reciever over the network it fails and errors out....or if I try to play the files from the media player on the laptop when it is hooked up via hdmi cable it also throws out the same errors... now remember that it worked perfectly fine decoding and playing the .flac files and sending through the headphone jack.

So what this is saying to me is that there is an issue with the reciever decoding the .flac files... Now I believe that these sample files are 96/24.. so that may be where the error lies 48/16 may be the highest that the reciever can handle, but I dont really have any material to test it at that level.

I would like to avoid buying a seperate network device like a squeezebox and then have to also have to buy an external dac.. It plays .wav files just fine over the network... Is anything lost when converting .flac to .wav? Because if that will make it work, then I will just convert it and let it take up a little extra space on the hdd..

tonyb

No, I don't believe anything is lost between the 2 formats. Some even like WAV. files better, of coarse thats subjective too. I think your assumption is correct, the receiver seems to not like a 24/96 file and has a problem with down sampling the files. If switching to a wav format fixes everything, then go with it. The next cheapest fix would be a usb/digital converter and just run the digital coax into an input on the receiver.

I have my modded Sonos running straight into my pioneer receiver and it dispays 24/96 as it should so I'm alittle hesitant to lay the blame completely on the receiver. I use a digital coax connection though and I think that is more so where your problem is. I mostly use Itunes lossless,but do have a few flac files that play just fine on my receiver. I more apt to believe it's somewhere in the conversion process, or your HDMI cable. Either way, I still think you need to convert the signal to digital coax for the receiver to recognize the hi rez file. Though you wouldn't think so if Blu-ray disc's audio is also higher rez and thats over hdmi. Is your hdmi cable up to snuff ? Just thinking out loud bro. I know this stuff can get aggravating making everything gel together.

bansheesho

I called pioneer support and they had nothing for me... I am pretty sure I knew way more than that guy did. I also asked him about the firmware update but he wouldn't tell me what it fixed at all.. he just wanted me to tell him what problems I was having and then he would decide if I needed the flash or not... So does anyone know what it fixes and how to get it if I want it?

Drenis

Alright so I was wrong earlier regarding network playback.

Anyways I took a few minutes here and looked at your manual (surprise). On page 78 shows a list of ALL formats which the AVR will playback through its network connection. FLAC is present but only to a max of 16/48k.

Hope that helps.

tonyb

If your goal is to use the dac in the receiver, get a usb/spdif converter and go straight into the digital connection on the cd input. My pioneer is a lesser model than yours and the digital inputs work fine for 24/96.

bansheesho

Yeah... I think you are correct on the resolution being the issue... I have yet to seek out and play one with a lower resolution, but when I get around to it I will give it a shot and report back (for anyone that may be curious).. for now I will just convert the higher resolution files to .wav

Side question... What makes a flac file higher resolution? Does this depend on what source it is being recorded from? (IE ripping from cd vs from the master)

heiney9

Just be aware WAV files have no ID3 support so you'll never know what file you are playing because there will be no track/artist/title, etc info. It's a real PITA, especially when you have a large library of songs or want to "transport" the files to another device, etc.

WAV is a poor choice as far as versatility and arranging/cataloging. Plus in Windows you would have to name all the files yourself which is very tedious and gets old very fast. Then the file names can only be seen in a Windows based program and they will be displayed in alphabetical order unless you put the track number yourself as part of the file name. The file names you give them won't carry over to a player like WINAMP or Media Monkey or your Pioneer, etc. All track number 1's from every cd you ripped will show up as "track 01" on anything looking for a file name.

So if have 100 cd's the first tracks to show up will be "Track 01" for the first hundred songs and "Track 02" for the next hundred songs, etc, etc.

It's akin to using DOS instead of Windows today. You most likely will have a cluster **** on your hands as far as managing your files.

H9

tonyb

Didn't know that about Wav files Brock, thats pretty sucky. Scratch that idea.

Lietuvis91

If your original source was a CD, you're not going to improve sound quality by ripping it at a 24 bit rate, because CDs are recorded at 16bits/44Khz. I rip all all of mine using 16/48.

If you have downloaded higher quality material than 16/48, then you should be able to convert it down to 16/48 to test if it works.

EndersShadow

What laptop do you have and what graphics card does it have in it.

bansheesho

It's just a cheap Toshiba laptop with the integrated Intel graphics .... My gaming rig is a desktop

EndersShadow

bansheesho wrote: »

It's just a cheap Toshiba laptop with the integrated Intel graphics .... My gaming rig is a desktop

Could your issue when trying to play FLAC via HDMI possibly be due to your integrated gpu not having proper HDMI codec's? I know the GPU in my laptop has a ATI HDMI driver that is used when connected via HDMI....

Sherardp

bansheesho wrote: »

I called pioneer support and they had nothing for me... I am pretty sure I knew way more than that guy did. I also asked him about the firmware update but he wouldn't tell me what it fixed at all.. he just wanted me to tell him what problems I was having and then he would decide if I needed the flash or not... So does anyone know what it fixes and how to get it if I want it?

See port #8 and no you can not get it. You have to take the unit in. Have them flash it anyway.

Drenis

Sherardp wrote: »

See port #8 and no you can not get it. You have to take the unit in. Have them flash it anyway.

That's not entirely true.

You can flash the unit yourself, via USB. However, finding the firmware online may be difficult. There is also a risk (low) of bricking it. Also you're crazy to do this IF the unit is still under warranty as it will void it.

I have access to the firmware upgrade for the VSX-21/23's. However, whether that works on the SC-2X series, I have no clue.