Connecting a REL T3 sub on a NAD 326 BEE (Low Level Input)

pyrocyborg

Hi,

I was offered a REL T3 at discounted price (as they are). After looking at the back of the REL, I've seen there is no way to connect my LSi7 speakers directly on it. From what I read, connecting everything that way would ensure that my speakers won't reproduct, let's say, any frequencies under 60 hz. However, it can come with a certain quality loss, so I know it isn't the "best way" to do it.

As I know that connecting a sub via the Sub RCA out from my NAD 326 BEE (the only type of output available for subs) wouldn't act as a low-pass filter, is there any other way to tell my speakers not to try to make let's say 20-30 hz frequencies (as they emit a certain "flapping" or crackling noise when doing so)?

Or do I simply connect the sub via RCA (Low Level Input RCA on the REL T3... or is it the LFE input?) and hope my speakers won't break trying to make any sub 30hz frequencies?

Thanks!

newrival

RELs work much differently. They promote them as sub bass systems, not subwoofers. REL recommends you run your speakers at ful range, that is to say with no crossover. You use the speakon cable that attaches to the output of your amp (the same one your speakers are using) and it uses that as the signal. Then you set the low pass frequency to somewhere between 20Hz and 30Hz (system dependant). The instruction manual has a very easy set up process and the website will answer an questions you have about the concept

from their website:

The Path to Perfect Bass

The secret to a REL sub-bass system’s success resides not only in its ability to extract the deepest sounds in the mix, or in its bullet-proof reliability and conspicuous overbuild, it resides primarily in its ability to integrate with the main system, enhancing its sound by naturally underpinning the output from the speakers – to make them sound as if they’d doubled in size. Richard Lord defined the conditions for successful integration over a decade ago by following three simple but hitherto illusive principles:

high-level accuracy

To ensure no blurring or other sonic degradation to the main system, the solution is to bi-wire the sub-bass system from the power amp. REL sub-bass systems are designed to be connected to the existing power amp's speaker terminals using the gas-tight high-level Neutrik lead. In this way there is no interference or possible corruption of the main signal going to the speakers. By connecting at high level, the sub will receive exactly the same character of bass as the main speakers.
The sub-bass system draws virtually zero current from the power amp because it is a very high impedance load (technically we say it is voltage driven). No harm can come to the sub-bass system whatever the power of the main amp, even a kilowatt can be accommodated with ease.

active ingredients

There is also the substantial benefit of the bass driver in a REL system being driven by its own dedicated bass power amplifier – optimised for that specific driver. It is DC coupled, meaning there are no harmful capacitors in the signal path causing phase problems and limiting its ultimate low frequency performance. Because of this built-in amp, there is no power drain on your main system amplifier. It goes on happily driving your main speakers exactly as before.

it's as simple as ABC....

The sub-bass system needs to have its own independent and variable crossover filtering totally separate from the main system. By use of this variable crossover, the sub-bass system is then brought up beneath the main speakers. This variable crossover filter is unique to REL. We call it the Active Bass Controller or simply ‘ABC’. Its action is limited to the sub-bass system alone and allows the user to set the upper frequency response of the sub-bass system from 22 Hertz (25 Hertz on the "Q" range) up to 96 Hertz (100 Hertz on the "Q" range).

Why choose such a low setting for the ABC? Because this ensures that a REL can be integrated into virtually any system, no matter how large the main speakers. All our models offer tight integration by having at least 24 discrete musically correct steps.
The ABC has both coarse and fine filter controls allowing critical adjustment together with a gain control, which adjusts level to compensate for the lack of boost given to these very low frequencies by your room. This ensures a smooth blending of sound from the main system and the sub-bass system. Thanks to the fine adjustment afforded by the ABC, you will be able to hear (and feel) very deep bass in any sized room with virtually any main system. The imaging of the main system is preserved down to its existing limits. A surprising bonus is that when correctly matched in, imaging and depth appear to improve. There are also spin-off benefits to the way we perceive that sense of "air" around instruments and the feeling of acoustic depth in a recording. These are subtleties that are totally masked if the sub is not correctly integrated into the system.

For the ST5 range, including 'Stampede', the fine and course filter regime of the ABC is replaced with even finer digital calibration, which operates in single Hertz steps from 16Hz to 99Hz.

removing room-boom

REL sub-bass systems can be "tuned" to your system and room, whatever your system's capabilities and listening room size. This is of enormous benefit, particularly if like many others, your listening room is not perfect. The REL can be positioned to pressure drive your listening room below its lowest eigentone and ensure that those previously missing or masked frequencies are heard cleanly and clearly, no false emphasis or boom – you control its sound in your system.

We are often asked: "Are two subs better than one?" Two subs will help iron out the usual room response undulations. Dynamic range is doubled and an even tighter and more controlled bass results. Two separated bass sources help achieve these subtle improvements.

other benefits

If you decide to upgrade any item in your system, the REL will simply reveal more of its potential. This of course can be said about some upmarket speakers, but rather than simply show up your systems faults, the REL is fully adjustable, thus it will never be obtrusive.

Above all it will allow you to keep what is best about your existing system. With a REL there is NO compromise. The REL will only add to your already high quality sound. It will never overwhelm, but confidently underpin your main system. It is very likely the most cost effective upgrade you will ever make.

Richard Lord: “Every single sub-bass system we make has been individually and very carefully tested, checked and tested over and over at each stage of its production. Not a cheap way to build, but the only way to ensure consistently high quality.”

newrival

and your speakers wont break. They are meant to handle the signal it is given.

I have a sub from their signature line and can attest to its musicality and ability to enhance the full spectrum rather than "just add bass"

Here is a review of the sub I own which helps to describe REL's approach and what it does for the system:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0704/relstadiumiii.htm

EndersShadow

^based on that doesnt look like you can use the sub to filter out certain frequencies from the mains which it sounds like your wanting to do.

pyrocyborg

Thanks for all that information! I didn't know about that...

How much is that famous REL High Level Input worth?

newrival

pyrocyborg wrote: »

How much is that famous REL High Level Input worth?

Not sure what you mean :question:
The sub should come with the cable, if not there are custom ones sold on ebay for around 60 bones, I think.

newrival

or maybe you mean qualitatively?
if so, it is ideal. The ingenious thing about it, is that it uses the same signal thae speakers are fed, which means it will carry over the voicing from your amplifier, and theoretically be reproducing sound specifically matched to your speakers. They assert that this aids in integration. All I can say is, regardless of whether their assertion is true, they're doing something right, as I have never owned a sub that so seamlessly integrated into my 2 channel system. It's brilliant

FTGV

pyrocyborg wrote: »

How much is that famous REL High Level Input worth?

The cost of 2 resistors.:cheesygrin:

pyrocyborg

Thanks newrival!
My question was poorly formulated, at best... :cheesygrin:

newrival

pyro, no problem. I think you wil enjoy your sub. Make sure to stop back in and share your impressions after getting it dialed in and running.

pyrocyborg

Yeah, if I get it, I'll give my feedback for sure!

pyrocyborg

After a few months, here I go! Just got my REL T-3. It does an incredible job and my LSi7 sounds more spacious and refined when using the tone defeat option on my NAD. Let's hope he'll last for a few years

I set the crossover @50 for now, and volume at around 1/4 knob and it's doing great!

cnh

Congrats. Great info from nrival above. I've seen and heard these subs but don't know much more about how to set them up. Now we have a resource for it.

As far as LSi7s being able to play much below 50hz. I've certainly "never" heard or experienced that. The bookies roll off very very fast. I doubt you'd be able to get 40, 30 or less hz and be able to hear "anything" at those frequencies from them?

I used to run mine on the previous NAD C325BEE. NEVER had a problem and I was running them with a Pioneer Blu-ray player and no sub! I now use the NAD power amp below (80 Watts x 2) and the Nak pre-amp. A little more power, still no problems.

The only way I can think of **** up the 7s is maxing out the bass on the C325 (I always ran it with tone defeat). And the Nakamichi pre has NO tone controls so that's not an option.

In any case, sounds like your problems are "over" now that you have the sub in place. But I'd still run the system FLAT. I've found tone controls on a NAD only take away from it's true sound which is very pleasing in the tone defeat mode!

Enjoy!

cnh

pyrocyborg

Thanks for the reply cnh.

I don't think the LSi7 can do anything below 45 hz and as you said, 50hz aren't that audible. The REL T-3 will take care of the 30-50Hz range.

Now that the sub is in place, listening to tone defeat is more pleasing than before... Bass is tight, but I don't want it to overthrow the rest and as I live in an appartment, better to keep it low... :P

So far so good, I like that little sub.

Dawgfish

Glad to hear your enjoying your REL sub. I have one of their R-328 subs paired with my LSiM703s and I couldn't be happier with the set-up. REL subs are awesome for 2 channel!

pyrocyborg

I played with the REL placement, crossover, phase and volume a little bit, and it's now in a hard corner (exterior wall). I guess it's louder and follows the main speakers better.

While not really an important matter, I think the T-3 might be underpowered for my room size to really feel some viceral kick drums and such. It adds a pleasing sound that is more than welcomed, but yeah, my 3300ft³ living and dinning room might be too much for it to really presurize it unless maxed in volume, which I won't do. Anyways, I don't want to annoy the neighbourgs much, so it might be okay that way and getting a bigger sub isn't really what I want, nor in my budget as a poor student... :rolleyes:

Thanks everyone for the help about connecting REL. Let's hope I won't get the upgrade bug any soon... (except for the Turntable/Cartridge/Stylus... haha)