Wired out of Phase

speakernutt
speakernutt Posts: 4
edited May 2012 in Vintage Speakers
I recently scored a pair of 10B's at a thrift store. All of the drivers were OK except the tweeters (SL2000's) which I found on ebay. The speakers sound very smooth and the bass is very good. The crazy thing that they seem to be wired out of phase. Was this a common problem with this model? Even though the speakers sound good I do notice a slight edge to the high end.
Post edited by speakernutt on
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2012
    I have seen speakers which are wired like that, I don't know your model but just stated this to settle your mind some.

    BTW Welcome to Polk Forums and stick around you may learn a few things here.

    Steve

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2012
    Are you saying because they are edgy you think they are wired out of phase? What makes you think they are wired out of phase? Typically bass suffers a lot with an out of phase speaker and you state bass is very good.

    The sl2000 has a nasty (albeit natural) spike and resonance at aprox 13.5kHz which makes them sound edgy and causes them to ramp up a bit when you start to crank them up. Too bad you didn't ask and join sooner as Polk redesigned a direct replacement tweeter with a silk dome that is smooth as butter and has no edge or peak resonance like the original sl2000. That resonance in the sl2000 gets worse as they age.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2012
    2nd order crossovers will have the tweeter wired out of phase from the woofer.

    Were both speakers wired this way?

    Is the imaging between the speakers or do sounds seem to coming from all over the room?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • transmaster
    transmaster Posts: 428
    edited May 2012
    The twin MW-6503 drivers on the 10B's are wired in parallel as long as you have the black and white wires on the same terminals on the two speakers on both 10B's you are OK. One set of wires has the feed for the second speaker crimped to the spade connectors make sure these two connectors are on the same speaker.
    Radio Station W7ITC
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited May 2012
    According to the schem. the woofers are connected with inverted polarity.Even though electrically connected out of phase with the tweeter the actual combined acoustically response will be in phase.
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  • transmaster
    transmaster Posts: 428
    edited May 2012
    I took a physical look at the wiring on the my 10B's the black wire is attached to the side that has the red dot, if there is no red dot with the male blade connectors on the speaker facing straight up the black goes to the left connection.
    Radio Station W7ITC
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  • TennMan
    TennMan Posts: 1,266
    edited May 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    According to the schem. the woofers are connected with inverted polarity.Even though electrically connected out of phase with the tweeter the actual combined acoustically response will be in phase.
    I don't see that. Maybe I'm missing something. Please explain what is inverted.

    Is this the schematic you are looking at? [Link]
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  • transmaster
    transmaster Posts: 428
    edited May 2012
    TennMan wrote: »
    I don't see that. Maybe I'm missing something. Please explain what is inverted.

    Is this the schematic you are looking at? [Link]

    Note on the schematic the polarity of the tweeter vis a vis the woofers the tweeter is wired the opposite of the woofers
    Radio Station W7ITC
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited May 2012
    TennMan wrote: »
    . Please explain what is inverted.
    Reverse polarity.
    Is this the schematic you are looking at? [Link]
    This one.http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18775&d=1155784729 Since they are not marked I assumed (wrongly)the pos. terminals where on the same side on all the driver symbols.Your schem. link indicates driver polarity and clearly shows that all drivers are connected with normal polarity.
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  • transmaster
    transmaster Posts: 428
    edited May 2012
    never mind :rolleyes::cheesygrin:
    Radio Station W7ITC
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  • transmaster
    transmaster Posts: 428
    edited May 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    Reverse polarity.

    This one.http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18775&d=1155784729 Since they are not marked I assumed (wrongly)the pos. terminals where on the same side on all the driver symbols.Your schem. link indicates driver polarity and clearly shows that all drivers are connected with normal polarity.

    Grrr :redface: the brain didn't pick up on the black dot with indicates the sold connection between the negative on the tweeter and the negative on the woofer. It has been one of those days.
    Radio Station W7ITC
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited May 2012
    transmaster wrote: »
    FTGV do you think Polk did this because technically the passive speaker moves out of of phase the the two woofers.
    Looks like I was incorrect about the woofer polarity.But to answer your question the passive radiator/ woofer relationship will not change regardless of woofer polarity.
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  • transmaster
    transmaster Posts: 428
    edited May 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    Looks like I was incorrect about the woofer polarity.But to answer your question the passive radiator/ woofer relationship will not change regardless of woofer polarity.

    You would think I would have a better grasp of the wiring beings how I just upgraded the cross overs on my 10B's.
    Radio Station W7ITC
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    Looks like I was incorrect about the woofer polarity.But to answer your question the passive radiator/ woofer relationship will not change regardless of woofer polarity.
    I believe it depends on the which model 10 we're talking about.

    FYI, regarding Polk internal wiring, black=positive.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • speakernutt
    speakernutt Posts: 4
    edited May 2012
    Yes the speakers are out of phase (no bass mono signal not centered). I shouldnt have complained about the tweeter in the same post. It is just that the highs are a little ragged sounding. Much smoother than my Klipschs.
    How much better would the SDA models be then the 10's?
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited May 2012
    SDA's are overrated...
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,562
    edited May 2012
    Yes the speakers are out of phase (no bass mono signal not centered).

    Huh?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,562
    edited May 2012
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    SDA's are overrated...

    :lol::lol::lol:
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2012
    F1nut wrote: »
    Huh?
    http://www.eminent-tech.com/music/multimediatest.html
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited May 2012
    To the original poster.

    You did check to see the wires coming from your receiver/amp/whatever are in phase when connected to the speakers right?

    I you are using nondescript wire it is easy to do.

    Have your tried the battery test to see if one or both is out of phase?

    The Battery Test:
    Use a 1.5volt battery like a AA, C or D size battery. A 9volt can damage your speakers.
    You will need a length of speaker wire long enough to reach around to the front of the speakers.
    Connect the speaker wire to the terminals in the back of the speaker.
    Make sure to note which is positive and which is negative.
    Now looking at the speakers themselves.
    Connect or hold the negative wire to the negative side of the battery.
    Now tap the positive wire to the positive side of the battery.
    If the speakers extend out they are in phase. If they pull in they are out of phase.
    The Passive Radiator will do the exact opposite of the mid drivers.
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  • speakernutt
    speakernutt Posts: 4
    edited May 2012
    Dah! During the battery test one was surely out of phase. I noticed upon hooking and unhooking that one of the red connectors was on the right and one was on the left. Someone had unscrewed the plastic covers and switched them. Sorry to be so stupid as not of thought of it before. Embarrised I say thanks to all.
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  • bmbguy
    bmbguy Posts: 416
    edited May 2012
    Hey, look at it this way -- it's an easy fix!!
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited May 2012
    Glad you found the problem.

    At least you didn't have to take the whole speaker apart to find the issue.
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