What Does It Take, An Essay Question

ohrbrcko

What does it take to make a great subwoofer and why hasn't Polk put in the resources to manufacture one? I find it amusing that fellow forum members here on Club Polk usually recommend a variety of subs made by competitors and rarely Polks. For example, I am in the market for a sub and I plan to purchase an SVS or HSU within the next month. I am stricly going on reviews from professional critics as well as current owners.

Polk has been in the speaker business for years. Surely they have the technical knowledge to come up with a great product. If I was running Polk, and I could not build a great sub. I would buy a company that does like HSU or SVS. There are lots of companies that do such a thing like Cisco Systems which is famous for going out and buying companies that extend their product lines and/or give them an edge/capability in a particular technology. I wll post this thread and let you, the members of Club Polk, discuss this issue.

Frank Z

An excellant question. I had a Polk PSW350 that I sold as part of my previous setup inorder to get my Lsi system. To be honest it perfromed very well. My decision to go with a non-Polk sub was kind of a no brainer, for me at least. I was able to get my Sunfire for less than half the cost of a new unit and still had the full 5 year warranty. It's compact size vs. output made it the ideal sub. It's a real guessing game though when it comes to trying to figure out why Polk doesn't build a sub to compete with Sunfire, HSU, SVS, etc. Perhaps they feel their subs are "Good Enough" and don't need any further refinement. Only Polk knows for sure. Like many others around here, I'm curious as to how well the PSW808 will stack up against some of the other subs on the market today.

Dr. Spec

My opinion is that Polk IS responding by building better subs than it has in the past.

Witness the slot loading to lower the FR, the improved woofers with more excursion and larger surrounds, and the doubling of amplifier power.

The problem Polk is facing IMO has more to do with market researchers and bean counters than it does with building no holds barred subwoofers.

The mass consumer market still has the opinion that a subwoofer should be a 35 pound cube that can fit comfortably and fairly inconspicuously into a corner and should cost about $300 on sale.

They want to hear and feel non-descript HT effects at 35-40 Hz, and most of them have probably never heard a true subwoofer capable of linear output to 20 Hz and for the most probably don't care either.

That demographic is what drives Polk's subwoofer development and product offerings. And that is why some CC stores don't even carry the PSW650 - too big and expensive and it doesn't sell nearly as well as the 303 and 404.

Compared to SVS products, the Polk stuff looks positively tame in terms of size and weight. Again, you are looking at the WAF as a primary driving force in Polk's sub offerings. SVS has always been about form follows function and eff the WAF. But now SVS is even offering gorgeous wood finish subs (PB1-Plus, PB2-Ultra, and B4-Plus) to increase the WAF, and wood finished SVS' are now finding their way into some very high end systems.

Despite being a strong performer (for a Polk), the 100+ pound, expensive, and physically conspicuous PSW1200 did not sell well, was short lived, and is not even listed anywhere in Polk's website under recent and vintage products. It's almost like it never existed as far as Polk is concerned.

Polk is also affected by middle man product mark-up and SVS is not. One of the big reasons SVS sells so well internet direct is because the asking price is actually very low for the performance delivered.

Bottom line: While Polk is certainly capable of making a subwoofer that can compete with an SVS; they just can't sell it for anywhere near the same price, and it wouldn't sell well in their intended markets anyway. It would be too big, too heavy, and too expensive and would sit in CC showrooms like an orphan. I'll be very surprised if the 808 is a strong seller.

danger boy

I agree with most of what Dr. Spec said.. esp the final paragraph.

Polk is capable of making a good quality sub.. but the retail market would probably not buy it. It would be awesome if Polk did make a high end sub to compeat with the likes of HSU, SVS, Veloydyne, etc. But at what price? It would have to be priced quite a bit more then the other brands out there. So it's a no win situation as I see it.

SVS has gained a fantastic following not only because they make great sounding subs.. also because they sell them at a pretty competitive price. Even HSU's subs which are just as good as the SVS's out there.. are priced a little higher than the SVS one's. I guess makers like HSU and SVS sell both quantity and quality... which is hard to do in todays HT market.

Duffman

I'll also give some props to Polk subs. I have a PSW350 and it does a great job. I'm sure it doesn't sound anything like the SVS or Hsu subs but at lower volumes (which is 90% of my listening) I'd have a tough time justifying the $ and the footprint of a larger sub.

Case in point: just last night I inadvertently woke my 5 year old while watching Matrix Reloaded.

daughter: "daddy what's that rumbly noise?"
me: "it's ok sweety, that's just the Nebbechanezzar docking into Zion..."
<wife gives angry look that says "I told you it was too loud">

Dr. Spec

Hey Duff - I had twin 350's stacked at one time and I really liked them. From about 33 Hz on up, they played pretty clean and strong. I had no idea what I was missing in the 15-30 Hz region, but within their limited bandwidth, the 350's did OK.

On Matrix Reloaded, can you hear the steady low frequency rumble after they exit the ship at Zion and are chatting at dockside?

Duffman

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Hey Duff - I had twin 350's stacked at one time and I really liked them. From about 33 Hz on up, they played pretty clean and strong. I had no idea what I was missing in the 15-30 Hz region, but within their limited bandwidth, the 350's did OK.

Ok now I'm a little confused. I'd heard that humans couldn't hear sounds below 20hz? Was I mis-informed?

jdhdiggs

Hearing and feeling are two different things. Below 20 Hz, you feel the sound. Your eyes shake, chest vibrates, etc...

PolkThug

Doc hit it right on the money with the bean counters.

Anyway, I have to give Polk credit because my basement located PSW505 can shake my house, especially the kitchen which is directly above my theater room. And I've mentioned in my other posts about really feeling the waves of bass in some of those Reloaded scenes. I paid $449 at crutchfield.com for the sub. IMO, money well spent. I am also very critical of bass, I've had various 12" subs in my car since high school (geez, has it been 12 years since graduation already...).

Peace...


*Disclaimer: I've never heard an SVS sub in my house, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Duffman
Ok now I'm a little confused. I'd heard that humans couldn't hear sounds below 20hz? Was I mis-informed?

The 32 foot pipe on a full size organ is tuned to 16 Hz, for example. You can't hear it, but you sure can feel it.

Hearing/feeling a subwoofer that can do justice to a full size organ is an awesome experience.

Ditto for a sub that can really effortlessly dig out the subsonic and near-subsonic stuff on certain DVDs.

Clean, deep, effortless bass falls into the "you'll know it when you hear it category" - even at low to moderate volumes.

scottvamp

********Despite being a strong performer (for a Polk), the 100+ pound, expensive, and physically conspicuous PSW1200 did not sell well, was short lived, and is not even listed anywhere in Polk's website under recent and vintage products. It's almost like it never existed as far as Polk is concerned.***********

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very few people were interested until it was gone. It shows alot about the Polk consumer market. At the time Polk even had a seperate link dedicated to the PSW1200.
By the way it kicks A$$!!!!!!!!

Here is the Polk info link:
PSW1200

Dr. Spec

Must be a new addition; thanks for the link....couldn't find it about 6 months ago. What a monster - flat to 22 Hz - NICE.

VR3

The best subwoofer I have heard to date was a Polk subwoofer. It was sitting under this very large Polk speaker. I believe they called it the SRT That thing could just pressurize the room.....