Carver TFM owners, is this normal?

Drenis

So I fired up the rig as I have the house all to myself :cool: I noticed what sounded like a buzzing. Turns out my amp has a very subtle hum/buzz to it. I had to my ear quite close to the tweeter/mids and now at my LP I can listen for it be it EVER so subtle. I began shutting off gear until the amp.

It does this on both channels. Sounds as if it's slightly louder or more audible on the left channel. It does not increase or decrease when you raise or lower volume.

I never had a ground hum before but to be honest, I don't know if it has always done it. I don't think so. All my gear runs through my Furman Elite PF-I 15.


Just looking for insight if anyone happens to know or have a theory. I'll send it he local carver guy in the city an email. Otherwise I'm enjoying some awesome Liquid Tension Experiment and everything sounds awesome.

nooshinjohn

may be time for a recap... I will get you some info on it when I get home. What model is it?

gdb

Change/rearrange the IC cables turn off everything like fluorescent lites etc. etc.

Drenis

TFM-42 - It was completely serviced with new caps when I bought it. Restored rather. I think I bought it in September last year.

As far as arranging cables, I have recently added MIT speaker cables as well as IC's. However I had never noticed anything until now. I just made her sweat a bit and the sound is beautiful and balanced. I guess I can swap some cables and rule anything out.

gdb

Try some cables without little black boxes and make sure they're not running parallel to the AC cord.

Drenis

EXP's don't have black boxes.

SCompRacer

Just a thought, gently wiggle the IC's where they are connected to the TFM to see if it worsens or gets better. I've had more than one TFM 35/42 with loose RCA blocks where they solder to the circuit board. If they are loose in the PCB, resoldering will fix it.

tonyb

Yep, try some well shielded different IC's to see if the hum goes away. Or just try a 2 buck cheater plug and see if that helps. Ground loops can be a pain in the arse to chase down.

F1nut

Turns out my amp has a very subtle hum/buzz to it. I had to my ear quite close to the tweeter/mids and now at my LP I can listen for it be it EVER so subtle. I began shutting off gear until the amp.

Is there an actual buzz coming out of the amp or just the speakers?

Drenis

Will try the suggestions above tonight and report back.

F1nut wrote: »

Is there an actual buzz coming out of the amp or just the speakers?

You know when I read it back before I posted that from my Playbook, It looked fine. However, I can see how it's confusing.

The buzz is coming from the speakers. Both speakers. The sound is slightly different as far as loudness goes on each channel. Noise does not change when gain is introduced.

I should clarify a bit more, you really have to put your ear right beside the tweeter to hear it. It sounds like a very mellow, mild hum with some slight static/buzz sounds emitting. Again, it's all very quiet. Certainly audible enough for me to ear it when not up against it because I know what I'm hearing now. I'm really not sure how to best describe it because it's the first time I've heard something like this.

thsmith

You should not be able to hear anything in your LP except the music. If I put my ear right next to the tweeter and turn my preamp all the way up I can hear a very faint slight almost white noise sound but the house has to be quiet and ear almost on top of tweeter.

If you are hearing something at LP you have a problem IMO.

Drenis

I think it's more contributed to the fact that now I have discovered it, I can listen for it. I really have to listen for it because it's so quiet and I only sit 8', maybe 9' away from the speakers in a small room.

I'm going to play with some cable configurations tonight to rule those out as well as go direct to wall with the amp, which is on it's own separate power bank on my line conditioner.

While over the months I have had a great interest in Wyred 4 Sound products, this is NOT the time for an amp upgrade! :razz:

F1nut

I really have to listen for it because it's so quiet and I only sit 8', maybe 9' away from the speakers in a small room.

While it's not uncommon to hear a faint hiss with your ear right next to a tweeter, if you can hear it from that distance, it's not normal.

It sounds like a very mellow, mild hum with some slight static/buzz sounds emitting.

That seems to be more than a faint hiss. I seriously doubt if the cables are the issue, more likely the amp or pre amp.

George Grand

It's the input RCA connectors. Mess with those.

nooshinjohn

If it has been recapped already, I am inclined to think the transformer may be the cause of the trouble. I suggest not using it further until you get it looked at just to play it safe. there is a good chance it can be fixed. If it fails while in use, the amp and maybe the speakers could be damaged.

Face

Sounds like a good time to upgrade.

Drenis

Thanks for all the suggestions and tips guys. I'll do some more digging around tonight.

nooshinjohn - any definitive telltale signs that might help diagnose that claim? Any noises upon start up or anything which may narrow it down? I'll give my local tech a call tonight.

nooshinjohn

the only conclusive evidence I have had was a bit of buzzing for a few weeks, then the pop from hell, complete with smoke, and my M 4.0t was no more...

heiney9

Dammit, start with the simple stuff. Like the cables and as GG has mentioned twice the RCA inputs. Chaeter plug, etc. You haven;t said what trouble shooting you've already done.

pitdogg2

Send it to this guy. I also have a GREAT local audio tech, but I'd never ask him to work on my Carver gear Rolland is simple the best besides Bob himself. Call him and explain your symptoms he is a very gracious fellow and I think for 300.00 he will completely rebuild it. Trust me it's worth every penny and worth the wait.

http://www.hitechaudioltd.com/

gdb

Have you tried a different pair of speakers ? It could be your XOs ya know.

Drenis

gdb wrote: »

Have you tried a different pair of speakers ? It could be your XOs ya know.

Are you serious? How does THAT happen?


I'll be doing some trouble shooting later tonight after I get home. Can't really say much until I try a few things.

heiney9

Drenis wrote: »

Can't really say much until I try a few things.

Yet you keep asking :frown:. Get to the basic stuff that has been mentioned then report back. Always, always start with the simple stuff. All this about calling a tech and sending it in....etc......when you haven't even checked the most basics of basics for elimination......get to it my man! :cheesygrin:

H9

Face

gdb wrote: »

Have you tried a different pair of speakers ? It could be your XOs ya know.

On a relatively new pair of speakers? Ok.

nooshinjohn

Drenis wrote: »

Are you serious? How does THAT happen?

in the fairy-tale world of a GDB, all things are possible with a little pee and the wind blowing the wrong way.:cheesygrin:

gdb

Up yer's, team leader of Team America. And yeah, Rambo boy, there ARE electronic doohickies inside speakers, you're the "transformer" !!!

Drenis

Okay so did some troubleshooting last night... didn't turn out very positive.

Apparently it's done this since day 1 according to my other half. She looked at me clueless and said, "You've never noticed this before? It's always done this. I thought it was normal". So apparently I have just picked up on it. I want to clarify a few things though:

- I should have never put that I could hear it from my LP. Because I can't. In my head I can hear it because I discovered it and that's all I try to listen for. It's very faint. You really do have to put your ears up to it. It's audible from a foot away at the least. So my apologies to F1nut for that improper description.

- Cables, outlet changes, nothing I tried would cure the sound. However, this may all be in my head but GG's suggestion of the RCA's did SOUND like it got slightly quieter when twisting the cables. I could be loony though. regardless, this did not fix the issue (if it is one?)

I'm pretty disappointed I've never noticed it before. Yesterday has not been a great day and learning this from my other half just sent me into a state of rage. Frustration is too polite of a word to use.

PSOVLSK

A little Deoxit on the connections maybe?

heiney9

Did you try unhooking the pre-amp to eliminate that? And also any source pieces? How do you know it's the amp? Just because it doesn't change when you change settings on the pre-amp doesn't mean it's not the pre-amp.

When I had caps start to get noisy in my pre-amp they hissed and it didn't matter what I did to the pre, it stayed constant. At first I thought it was my Adcom amp at the time, but it was the pre-amp.

H9

Drenis

h9,

There was nothing connected to it. After she told me that she could hear it as well because I wanted to see if she noticed it, I ran through the usual troubleshooting steps. That noise still emits.

SCompRacer

Drenis wrote: »

However, this may all be in my head but GG's suggestion of the RCA's did SOUND like it got slightly quieter when twisting the cables.

Loose RCA blocks on the PCB can cause this (requires resoldering), but it will be obvious.