A good performing IC

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I've enjoyed trying to come up with, in my opinion, good sounding interconnect cables that I can make myself. Last year I bought a second hand Sencore LC102 capacitor-inductor analyzer so I could measure capacitor leakage, ESR and dielectric "memory" as well as inductor values and ringing characteristics. I noticed that the test cable that came with it was labeled RG62A/U with the note to not bend it. I started reading about this coaxial cable, that it was developed as a computer based data transmission cable with a unique structure. It has a center solid conductor with a spiral polymer thread wrapped around it in an open weave. Then there is a plastic "tube" that is placed around the spiral wrapped conductor and then a full braid shield and the final outer covering. The result is an air pocket that envelops the conductor with a plastic sheath and then the shield layer. Since air is regarded as one of the better dielectric materials I wondered how it would sound as an audio cable. The problem was that almost every example used a steel central conductor that was copper plated and I much preferred a solid copper conductor combined with a solid copper shield. After quite a bit of searching I found a supply and began making up some cables. I tried lots of different technics to attach the RCA plug to the cable and still preserve the overall structure of the supporting central strand and shield. I finally worked out a pretty labor intensive method of wrapping a small amount of thin gauge copper wire around the end of the copper center conductor in a tight spiral to keep it perfectly centered in the connection end of the RCA plug. Also I worked out a way to pre-shape the grounding structure of the RCA plug so I could make a good grounding connection, but not deform the important shape of the shield, supporting plastic tube and spiral loop underneath. Different soldering temperatures and lots of RCA plugs later I think I've got a nice method.
The IC seems to measure very well, a 48" IC has around 53pF of capacitance and the DC resistance is under 0.1 Ohm for both the center and shield. The characteristic impedance of the cable is 93 Ohms, so it isn't for digital use.
For analogue audio I really like it. I wanted to have a very revealing quality to the sound but not with any specific "flavor". It seems to treat music kindly, the harmonic structure is easy to hear and doesn't seem "constipated" or "pinched". I only have other home-made cables to compare it to, but I like the nice quiet backgrounds and it seems good to me. I like RCA plugs that have a split center pin for good contact and don't have a thick barrel since I have older gear to connect and spacing is not always very wide.
If anybody wants to try out a pair send me a PM and I'll send a pair, I'd be interested in other people's opinion.
Cheers, Ken

chumlie

pm sent.

disneyjoe7

pm sent.

steveinaz

Sounds fairly close to Belden's teflon insulated solid copper conductor RG-6 wire. I'm with you on copper plated "metal" AND I do not like silver plated copper either. I prefer pure copper.

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I looked at Belden's version of RG62, but it used copper plated steel as the conductor. RG62 is really different from RG6 in that the conductor is in the middle of an air filled plastic tube, kept centered by a spiral filament. Think of taking a piece of copper wire and putting it in the middle of a soda straw and supporting it so it stays in the middle. RG6 is more like a piece of copper surrounded in Teflon with no air space between it and the shield, kind of like a pencil. With RG62 if you could seal one end you could pour oil or any other liquid dielectric down the center then seal off the remaining end. In my case I make the cables while skydiving over freshly fertilized corn fields that way the air that gets trapped is thin in pressure and contains a rich organic quality. To me that sounds the best, especially when listening to Bluegrass.
Cheers, Ken
ps. just kidding, it's actually Baltimore basement air, but that doesn't sound exotic enough, does it?

steveinaz

Sounds very unique. here's the Belden I'm speaking about: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/technicaldocs/1695Atech.htm

disneyjoe7

I have some AudioGuest RG6 cable in my walls for a RCA cable signal.... I like it.

[Deleted User]

Hello,
This is probably a good illustration of what the cable looks like:
http://www.hifinazory.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=581
Ken

pitdogg2

more than likely that spiral is Teflon

SCompRacer

Interesting find Ken. I'll stick that number down on my future list to try.

I have been using coax IC's for the last three years or more with excellent results. Even on my digital out from the SB Touch to my external DAC. Belden Brilliance 8241f, which has a bare copper stranded center conductor with bare copper braid shield. No copper plated steel used in mine. Yes, I understand the air concept. I had IC cables like that before, but not in a braided type coax.

txcoastal1

This is a speaker cable but the same idea, its also available on the Dyaudio products list...have always been curious

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/ocos/idx_products.htm

It is a dynaudio product

[Deleted User]

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Baltimore basement air

Methinks you need to submit this as a new scent of Febreze. (sorry for the de-rail couldn't resist) :cool:

[Deleted User]

I can see the commercial for it now, a wet pit bull comes through the pet door into the kitchen and walks past a trashcan full of empty steamed crab shells. The camera pulls back and shows a pile of dirty Orioles and Ravens jerseys and a dozen crushed cans of Natty Bo. John Waters comes into screen and wrinkles up his nose and begins spraying back and forth and says, "Get the clean fresh scent of a spring day in a Baltimore Basement for your family, new from Febreze!".

drumminman

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

I can see the commercial for it now, a wet pit bull comes through the pet door into the kitchen and walks past a trashcan full of empty steamed crab shells. The camera pulls back and shows a pile of dirty Orioles and Ravens jerseys and a dozen crushed cans of Natty Bo. John Waters comes into screen and wrinkles up his nose and begins spraying back and forth and says, "Get the clean fresh scent of a spring day in a Baltimore Basement for your family, new from Febreze!".

What imagery! :cheesygrin:

[Deleted User]

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

I can see the commercial for it now, a wet pit bull comes through the pet door into the kitchen and walks past a trashcan full of empty steamed crab shells. The camera pulls back and shows a pile of dirty Orioles and Ravens jerseys and a dozen crushed cans of Natty Bo. John Waters comes into screen and wrinkles up his nose and begins spraying back and forth and says, "Get the clean fresh scent of a spring day in a Baltimore Basement for your family, new from Febreze!".

Too bad Divine isn't still alive, I am sure he would have a prominent role as well. :cool:

schwarcw

Interesting Ken! I didn't know that you spoke Czech!

[Deleted User]

Ahoj priteli

jm1

Hi Ken,

This is like the mono-filament windings Nordost uses in their upper range cables. I use the Frey series in my system.

http://nordost.com/page/micro-mono-filament

[Deleted User]

Thanks, JM1, that does look very similar to what I've been making. My goal is to make a shielded style cable that has the same sound qualities as a twisted pair cable. One of the best sounding cables I can remember were made by a friend who took two conductors and some packing tape and made a ribbon with the conductors spaced about 1 1/2" apart. They were difficult to deal with but very good sounding.
Cheers, Ken

jm1

Ken,

A few years ago, a local store had cable matching the description of the cable your friend made. I believe it was of European origin. Not sure what the cable was called, but they used to get rolls and terminate them in house. Unfortunately I am not sure what they sounded like as their rooms/setups always sounded bad regardless of what equipment was used.

Have you ever thought of making a Ubyte-2 based cable? You would remove the stranded shielding, use the center conductor core, use a solid shielding, wrap with teflon tape and cover with heat shrink. I made speaker cables at one time. Works good but the down side is its not very flexable.

CoolJazz

The shot of that RG-62A and it's spiral wrap next to the center conductor...

...reminds me of 9913 and it's spiral in there.

9913 is a low loss cable that RF guys know as the lowest loss you can use before you go up to heliax. I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I also think it's a faster velocity factor.

Wonder if one of those two, loss or velocity factor, would be in common with the 62A and could be a factor in the sonics? 9913 would be too fat to use as an interconnect, so I'm not suggesting that. Just the spiral wrap giving the large amount of air dielectric brings to mind the 9913 and it's good things for RF and it makes me wonder about the similarity to the use of the RG-62A for interconnect. Hmmm....

CJ

[Deleted User]

JM1,
That is very interesting, I like what the acronym means. There's a buddy in Florida who makes speaker cables using two lengths of low-cap microphone cable wired in a "star" pattern. The shield of one cable and the conductor of the other are joined and the same happens with the other path. Both shield and conductor have to be pure copper to sound good. I like your suggestion of using the two identical conductors to pass the signal, that way the waveform has the identical conductive paths with the advantages of the "air-suspension".
A while ago I made some cables using single strands of Kimber speaker wire and packing tape to keep them separate and I liked the result. The adhesive tended to ooze out the sides after a few years, but they sounded great. Then I went to twisting Kimber wires in a drill and kept to that for a long time with not quite the same results.
A good way to have fun.

jm1

One more throught. Have you looked into the Dynaudio OCOS speaker cable characteristics and implementation? This is supposed to be a good cable for speakers. Never saw one in action though.

Have fun.