What receiver/amp is best for the rti 150's?

greyking · October 2003

Hello everyone, I am new here and I am sure that I am asking a common question that has already been asked here several times. I, like many of you, was lured into the UNBELIEVABLE deals that were recently going on at Circuit City. I was able to purchase a set of the Polk Rti 150's sealed in the boxes for $580 ($269.99 each plus tax) out the door. I also picked up a set of the Fxi30's sealed in the box for $154 ( $71.99 each plus tax). With a deal like that I just could not pass it up. Just for the record, I do not work for Circuit City and I am just a normal customer. I am actually a professional Singer/songwriter. Music and high quality listening are a major priority in my life. I plan to use these speakers for a home theater set up (DVD) and to listen to DVD-audio/Super-bit CD's (and regular CD's). I know these Rti 150's are "power hungry" and a lot of people are questioning whether or not it is worth it to have to buy a more powerful amp to run them. For me, I think they look like beautiful works of art. Just incredible furniture. I don't normally buy things on looks alone, but now my only challenge is to get them to sound up to their supposed greatness. Ok, so for anyone that says " buy the Rti 70's instead", sorry, but the choice has been made and I'm sticking with it. Besides, the 150's were cheaper (believe that or not) and they look MUCH better. So my question is what is the best receiver and amp set up will bring out the most potential for these speakers to sound the very best that they can? I would also like to know what center channel speaker, rears, and sub would compliment the fxi 30's and rti 150's that I now have. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

KeithV · October 2003

Originally posted by greyking
Hello everyone, I am new here and I am sure that I am asking a common question that has already been asked here several times. I, like many of you, was lured into the UNBELIEVABLE deals that were recently going on at Circuit City. I was able to purchase a set of the Polk Rti 150's sealed in the boxes for $580 ($269.99 each plus tax) out the door. I also picked up a set of the Fxi30's sealed in the box for $154 ( $71.99 each plus tax). With a deal like that I just could not pass it up. Just for the record, I do not work for Circuit City and I am just a normal customer. I am actually a professional Singer/songwriter. Music and high quality listening are a major priority in my life. I plan to use these speakers for a home theater set up (DVD) and to listen to DVD-audio/Super-bit CD's (and regular CD's). I know these Rti 150's are "power hungry" and a lot of people are questioning whether or not it is worth it to have to buy a more powerful amp to run them. For me, I think they look like beautiful works of art. Just incredible furniture. I don't normally buy things on looks alone, but now my only challenge is to get them to sound up to their supposed greatness. Ok, so for anyone that says " buy the Rti 70's instead", sorry, but the choice has been made and I'm sticking with it. Besides, the 150's were cheaper (believe that or not) and they look MUCH better. So my question is what is the best receiver and amp set up will bring out the most potential for these speakers to sound the very best that they can? I would also like to know what center channel speaker, rears, and sub would compliment the fxi 30's and rti 150's that I now have. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

You're gonna spend much more on an amp setup then you did on the speakers

Good deal, though.

greyking · October 2003

Yes, I plan to buy something really nice, so I expect to pay.

VR3 · October 2003

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12972

greyking · October 2003

Would it be better to go with seperate components like a pre-amp/power amp setup rather than an all inclusive reciever? From what I hear seperate components sound better and make the setup more versatile.

tschep20 · October 2003

if you're looking for some good amps that will power them quite nicely I would recommend looking at rotel. I have the 150s myself and have this amp powering them along with the CSI40, and FXI50s

http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rmb1075.htm

I really like the sound this combinations produces so far and the 120 wpc seems like an understatement. If you really want to power them you can look at this behemoth 2x380 w

http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rb1090.htm

One last thing is the pre-amp, I have the rotel rsp-1066 and love it so far. It's night and day when compared to my onkyo receiver. The details are amazing

Tour2ma · October 2003

gk,

First, welcome to the Club.

Since you've been reading you may have seen Doc Spec's estimate that it'll take a minimum of 300 wpc into 4 ohm to drive the 150's. I've added that at least 30 amperes per ch of current seems to be needed and it could be closer to 40. You can look, but few receivers are going to deliver that kind of power. Separates are likely in your future, or at least a receiver that has pre-outs for bi-amping.

You've indicated an interest in the HT as well. You really need to give us an idea as to your budget and whether you are open to used electronics.

greyking · October 2003

Thanks for the welcome. Ok so my budget is something about 8 grand or around there. What do you think about the Sunfire Theater Grand III pre amp along with the Sunfire Cinema seven signature Power amp? Is that a good choice or is there much better for that amount of money? The Rotel looks nice also. I would like to buy something that will hold its value and would be a good investment. Les Paul guitars always hold their value and will often go up in value. Something that will hold it's value is always smart. Does McIntosh make anything worth looking at?

jim_r · October 2003

I have the 150s myself and have this amp powering them along with the CSI40, and FXI50s...

I really like the sound this combinations produces so far and the 120 wpc seems like an understatement.

tschep20

Since you've been reading you may have seen Doc Spec's estimate that it'll take a minimum of 300 wpc into 4 ohm to drive the 150's

Tour2ma

120 wpc doesn't sound like over 300 wpc to me. Although, I would recommend a little more than 120.

Tour2ma · October 2003

Well... that's an easy budget to work with...:D

goingganzo just scooped up the TGIII and loves it... I own the original 5 ch Sig Cin Grand and love it... and the pair should leave you $1500 or so under your budget for center and surrounds... Sounds like a plan to me...

I did pair my Sunfire with the B&K ref 50, which can be had through a factory authorized Atlanta retailer for $2195. It's worthy of consideration, but I think the TGIII does upconvert video, which the ref 50 will not...

Rotel is a good choice and will cost a bit less I believe. B&K's 200.7 is also wrth considering, but don't know what they are going for. Either wil give you half the power of the 7 ch Sig Cin, but would be plenty if you include a good sub in your plans, which pretty much means SVS around here. With an SVS you should consider the Sunfire Cin Grand at 200 wpc, unless you're like me and just can't live knowing there is more amp out there...

OLD, vintage McIntosh is still in high demand, especially their tube amps and pre's, but that was all 2 ch. At one time they were the reference electronics, but I do not know what the quality of their multi-channel SS amps is today...

As for other speakers to match your 150's... Polk rec's the CSi40 and FXi50, so run back to CC and see what you can do. Others here might rec the RTi38's for rears in place of a second set of FXi50's depending on your HT room's lay out.

Tour2ma · October 2003

Originally posted by jim_r
120 wpc doesn't sound like over 300 wpc to me. Although, I would recommend a little more than 120.

The 120 is an 8 ohm rating, I was siting a 4 ohm which you left out of the quote...

The Rotel can deliver up to 200 wpc into 4 ohms...
=================================
Model RMB-1075
Continuous Power Output
(20-20 kHz, <0.03%) 5x120 watts /ch / 8 ohms
DIN Power Output
(1 kHz, 1%) 5x200 watts /ch / 4 ohms
=================================

And tschep20 did mention his Rotel might be a tad light for the 150's...

jim_r · October 2003

The Rotel can deliver up to 200 wpc into 4 ohms...

200 wpc is still not over 300 wpc.

And tschep20 did mention his Rotel might be a tad light for the 150's...

I don't see that in the post.

Tour2ma · October 2003

Thanks for the winky... and full quotes...

You're right, tschep only said more Rotel was out there, not that he felt it was needed in his HT.

The Model RMB-1095 would be a good choice...
Continuous Power Output (20-20 kHz, <0.03%) 5x200 watts /ch / 8 ohms
DIN Power Output (1 kHz, 1%) 5x330 watts /ch / 4 ohms

I could swear Rotel was spec'ing HCC before, but I don't see it on their site now. I want to say tschep's amp delivered something like 43 amperes per ch....

By contrast the Sig Cin Grand and B&K delivers HCC in the 70's...

jim_r · October 2003

Actually, I did include the "4 ohms" in your quote, Tour2ma. What I did not make clear was that the 120 wpc was for 8 ohms, but that was not explicitly included in tschep20's post so there was nothing to quote. In fact, to be honest, I missed the 4 ohms part and thought you were talking about 8 ohms.

Anyway, the point that I am trying to make is that I think that some people are getting a little carried away with the power requirements for the 150's, especially when most members on this forum who have 150's are not giving them near that much juice and they say they sound great.

But, I do agree that the RMB-1095 would probably be a better choice.

Tour2ma · October 2003

Originally posted by jim_r
Actually, I did include the "4 ohms" in your quote, Tour2ma. .... In fact, to be honest, I missed the 4 ohms part and thought you were talking about 8 ohms.

Yup, you did and I missed that... Maybe we can agree on one more thing... we need some sleep...

You're point on scaring 150 owners about power requirements is well taken. However, what is really scarry is that several members have found that they are woefully underpowered dropping the 150's into their exising HT's. Some have decided to retreat, and others are scrambling (with mixed results) to add power.

The Rotel 1075 may be the minimum AVR admission to a level of 150 enjoyment. Your comment on the 1095 tells me you agree that its 330 wpc would reveal more of the 150's potential.

And I think 330 is more than 300....

... (sorry, couldn't resist...)

Dr. Spec · October 2003

My power comments about the 150 centered around the assumption that it will be at a minimum run on large, and quite possibly with no sub in the mix for HT applications.

If you run them on large only, and still have a dedicated sub for the LFE channel, you could probably skate with 200 W continuous into 4 ohms from a high current amp.

If you run them on large with no sub and the other speaks set to small in a HT application, you will require 300-500 W continuous into 4 ohms from a high current amp if you are looking for SPL bass peaks of say 112 dB at the seat in a moderate to larger room (2000-3000 ft3).

The new Matrix reloaded is a great example. The final scene has at least 5-6 seconds (sustained) of extremely powerful and deep rumbling bass. It takes a VERY gutsy amp to deliver that kind of continuous current for 5-6 seconds at typical HT volumes. The room was shaking big time - I'd guess my SVS BASH amp was pushing a steady 600+ watts on that scene.

greyking · October 2003

I am reading some reviews and found this one on the Sunfire pre amp. Now I am really confused.............check it out and see what you think

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/SunfireTheaterGrandIIIP1.html

Tour2ma · October 2003

Well that started a storm...

Carver has never worried about S/N ratio, if you do, his designs are not for you.

Here's some more reading on the original TG I...
http://www.audioreview.com/A/V%20Preamplifier/Sunfire/PRD_118422_2719crx.aspx

Mazeroth · October 2003

I work at CC and a good friend of mine has the 150s. I didn't read through this whole post to find if anyone knew this but the 150s ARE 4 ohm speakers. We hooked a mulitmeter up to the binding posts with the metal connectors still intact and it read at 4ohms. When we read each individual binding post it showed an 8ohm load. They're wired in parallel yielding a 4-ohm load. That's why they shut down a lot of receivers. He has an HK AVR 520 (70x5 I think) and it doesn't shut down but I can tell they want a LOT more power. Hope this helps!

scornful · October 2003

I'll have to check that when I get home.... and compare it to my old RT800's

Terrax · October 2003

I am running my 150's with a Yamaha RX-V3300 powering the Mids and Tweets and a Soundcraftsmen PM-840 powering the Woofs. I just set up the PM-840 today about 2 hours before work, and I was floored by how freakin loud my system was. I didn't go beyond -25 on the volume, and the storm door and windows were shaking so bad, my wife was like, "your going to tear the house down, STOP THAT!", hehehe. Anyway, I am running the 150's as large, with no sub hooked up. And my demo'ing today was 2 channel only, and was done for around an hour, mainly non stop. There was no clipping, and no shut downs. I'll demo HT with LotR's tonight when I get home, also without a sub. and ran as large and the other speakers ran as small.

Later,
Terry

tschep20 · October 2003

Originally posted by Tour2ma
The 120 is an 8 ohm rating, I was siting a 4 ohm which you left out of the quote...

The Rotel can deliver up to 200 wpc into 4 ohms...
=================================
Model RMB-1075
Continuous Power Output
(20-20 kHz, <0.03%) 5x120 watts /ch / 8 ohms
DIN Power Output
(1 kHz, 1%) 5x200 watts /ch / 4 ohms
=================================

And tschep20 did mention his Rotel might be a tad light for the 150's...

My bad, i should have included the ohms rating. Also, I never did claim that the 120 watts gave the 150s all the power they needed. That's why i also suggested the more powerful amp. On a final note, damn, that's a large budget, obviously you can find some really nice equipment with that spending money

Dr. Spec · October 2003

Originally posted by Mazeroth
I work at CC and a good friend of mine has the 150s. I didn't read through this whole post to find if anyone knew this but the 150s ARE 4 ohm speakers. We hooked a mulitmeter up to the binding posts with the metal connectors still intact and it read at 4ohms. When we read each individual binding post it showed an 8ohm load. They're wired in parallel yielding a 4-ohm load. That's why they shut down a lot of receivers. He has an HK AVR 520 (70x5 I think) and it doesn't shut down but I can tell they want a LOT more power. Hope this helps!

Interesting.........Polk's website shows them nominal 8 ohms.

jim_r · October 2003

Originally posted by Terrax
I am running my 150's with a Yamaha RX-V3300 powering the Mids and Tweets and a Soundcraftsmen PM-840 powering the Woofs. I just set up the PM-840 today about 2 hours before work, and I was floored by how freakin loud my system was.

Terry, now that you are giving the 150's more power, is there a noticable difference in the quality of the sound and sound stage in 2-channel stereo, or is it primarily just louder at a given volume setting? For example, is the sound more clear with better highs and deeper bass, and is the soundstage bigger with more depth? Or is it primarily just louder?

4_everyman · October 2003

Dang it! You guys are gonna bankrupt me!

I just picked up five new speakers:
* RTi150s (bi-wired fronts)
* CSi40 (bi-wired center)
* FXi50s (surrounds)

I've been reading a lot of posts in which folks are talking about the power requirements of the RTi150s. I'm driving all five speakers with a Rotel RSX-1055. Thus far i haven't noticed any problems, but i really haven't put my gear through its paces. My HT room is still a work in progress and i really haven't had a chance to properly break in my gear. Since i haven't pushed my speakers hard yet, i don't know if the 75 WPC is really gonna get the job done. I haven't noticed any problems yet, but as i said, i really haven't given it a proper workout yet. Also, my HT room is very "bright" sounding: stone floor, short ceiling, bare walls.

I'm leaning towards adding a Rotel RMB-1075. Seems like it would be an excellent match with the RSX-1055. My listening/viewing time is split about 50/50 between listening to music and viewing DVDs/laserdiscs.

Before this upgrade, i was using five NHT SuperZeros and a Sunfire True Subwoofer. (Really!) Even with the limited use i've gotten from my new speakers, i'm not convinced that i really need that subwoofer anymore. On the other hand, perhaps that subwoofer is making it easier for the RSX-1055 to drive my speakers? (In the RSX-1055's setup, i have subwoofer set to YES.) I have mixed feelings about hanging on to the Sunfire True Subwoofer. What do you folks think? Is it really worthwhile or necessary to have a sub like that with RTi150s? It's a bit of a pain to be constantly tweaking the sub's output level. I certainly needed a powerful sub when all i had was a set of NHT SuperZeros, but now...well...i'm not so sure. Perhaps with the 100 Hz crossover setting in the RSX-1055, i'm not yet putting a strain on the amplifier portion of my receiver.

I like to listen to a lot of my music loud, but my wife is not keen on that. Fortunately, she takes evening classes and is away on photo shoots often enough that i can indulge myself.

So, bottom line. Should i:
A. Keep my current set-up (RSX-1055 + RTi150s + Sunfire True Sub) and not try to fix a problem that hasn't occured yet, or...
II. Add a Rotel RMB-1075 amp and subtract the Sunfire True Sub and really push the RTi150s for everything they've got, or...
3. Add the RMB-1075 and keep the Sunfire True Sub

Rgds,
--Pete

jim_r · October 2003

Pete, I have heard that you are not supposed to send the .1 LFE to main speakers. Their full-range classification does not include LFE. Subwoofers are designed for the .1 LFE. I know that they talk about this over on the Outlaw Audio web site. In fact, I asked the Outlaw Audio tech support about using my main speakers for the LFE and they replied that if you watch movies with a .1 LFE track alot and listen at relatively loud volumes that you should use a subwoofer for that; otherwise you could damage your main speakers over time. In fact, I also posed the same question to the Polk Audio tech support and they also said that it is best to use a subwoofer for the .1 LFE.

scornful · October 2003

Jim

He's not talking about sending the .1 signal to the mains.... he's saying setting up the receiver set to "no sub". The .1 will not be used, unless he decides to stick with the Sunfire Sub. A totally different setup than what you are refering to (I think). I've been doing this for about a year since lightning got my sub.. DAMN IT!

Terrax · October 2003

Terry, now that you are giving the 150's more power, is there a noticable difference in the quality of the sound and sound stage in 2-channel stereo, or is it primarily just louder at a given volume setting? For example, is the sound more clear with better highs and deeper bass, and is the soundstage bigger with more depth? Or is it primarily just louder?

Jim,

Hm.... how to put this? First, I have found that the soundstage from the 150's is more dependant on placement than any other one factor, so as far as the soundstaging is concerned throwing more juice to the 150's will not seem to have a dramatic effect when compared to careful placement of the speakers.
As far as quality of sound, as possibly odd as this may sound, with more power driving the 150's there seemed to be a point where they just sounded incredibly loud, but when I pushed alittle more on the volume, they didn't seem to gain as much loudness as they did clarity. As I mentioned, I am running these as large with no sub hooked up, they are 19 and 3/4 inches from the side walls, and 25 and 1/2 inches from the rear walls, now I don't really like the current placement, as it creates more booming than I like, but they sit evenly with my equipment racks which looks better. I do plan to move them back where I had them to begin with, which had better imaging and lower level detail. I have moved these suckers around inch by inch many time testing the impact of placement in relation to soundstaging and imaging, and for what its worth, it takes effort to have the best possible imaging you can get, but it is well worth it. I have Klipsch CF-1's, and I could put those puppies anywhere and they would image like mad, because of what they were.

I watched LotR's the two towers last night, and I must say, SweeeeeeeeeeT. I did not need a sub. The system did not shut off, nor did any clipping lights indicate clipping, nor did I decern any clipping by ear, which is subjective.

MrChicken · October 2003

Originally posted by Mazeroth
I work at CC and a good friend of mine has the 150s. I didn't read through this whole post to find if anyone knew this but the 150s ARE 4 ohm speakers. We hooked a mulitmeter up to the binding posts with the metal connectors still intact and it read at 4ohms. When we read each individual binding post it showed an 8ohm load. They're wired in parallel yielding a 4-ohm load. That's why they shut down a lot of receivers. He has an HK AVR 520 (70x5 I think) and it doesn't shut down but I can tell they want a LOT more power. Hope this helps!

I just ohm'd out my Rti150's and they are 4.6 and 4.8 ohms.
I tried one of my RTi38's and it was 4.0.

For a sanity check, I ohm'd out my Onkyo speakers that came with my HT-S760, mains were 7.7 and surrounds were 7.7 .

jim_r · October 2003

Originally posted by scornful
He's not talking about sending the .1 signal to the mains.... he's saying setting up the receiver set to "no sub". The .1 will not be used, unless he decides to stick with the Sunfire Sub. A totally different setup than what you are refering to (I think).

scornful, I have a Rotel RSX-1055, which is what Pete is also using. On p. 30 of it's Owner's Manual, it states:

"A system with LARGE front, center, and surround speakers, but no subwoofer. ... With no subwoofer, the LFE bass is redirected to all five LARGE speakers...."

So in that case, it does send the LFE to the other speakers when the subwoofer is set to NO. Unfortunately, the manual does not explicitly cover the case where just the two front speakers are set to LARGE and the others are set to SMALL. However, why would it drop the .1 LFE in that case and not drop it in the case where all are set to LARGE? Although, maybe Pete can contact Rotel just to be sure. Of course, this is just for the Rotel. Perhaps your receiver, scornful, drops the LFE if subwoofer is set to NO.

scornful · October 2003

I dont mean to sound like an ****.... but put the book away for a little while. THINK about what it all means. Dont take everything literally. Setting a speaker to "small" takes the bass out of it. Cant remember at which frequency it filters (depends on the receiver actually). All this does is cleans up the midbass on speakers that cant play the deeper base, read 5 1/4" or 4", and keeps you from destroying smaller mid drivers. Now having the mains set to "large" with "no sub" selected means the mains will receive the full signal including the sub frequencies. If you have say a set of SRT's or RT3000P's you will not hurt a thing sending them sub frequencies. I'd put money on it..... Be careful with this arrangement as you might screw up some speakers depending on what you have. I wouldnt do this with a set of RTi28's (though they might be OK with lower frequencies, 5 1/4" mids make me nervous). I've been doing it for at least a year or two. Right after I got my engineering degree actually....

What receiver/amp is best for the rti 150's?

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