CSI40 not as clear as rti70s

kmart9419

I have a current setup of 2 RTI mains, csi40 center and 2 rear bose am10s I'm temporarily using for surrounds. I couldn't stand the bose in that the dialog was always muffled. After replacing with the csi40, I still feel the same way. The csi40 was not what I had expected it to be. The dialog is muffled as well. Running the rti70s in stereo mode, the dialog was excellent. I can hear everything. After much experimenting with small and large and crossover points, the dialog does seem to be clearer when I use it in the large mode or using a low crossover of 60 or less. My sub is the velodyne cht-10. Anybody else have this problem? One thing is for sure, the csi40 can't compete with the quality of the rti70s. I'm resorting to using the rti70s in stereo mode for movies and music now. Quite dissapointing.

kmart9419

Has anybody tried out the new csi5? Would the Csi5 voice match with the rti70s? If it does, I'll go back to cc and upgrade the csi40 to the csi5.

faster100

welcome to the board,

I say stay within the model lines.. ie: Rt, rti, R yes they will all sound closely and if your new to this or not a super critical listener you will never hear much of a difference.. with that said i like to keep everything looking the same, matching, models, lines and such.. The csi40 should sound clear.. its a top knotch center channel and the cs5 wont sound much diffferent.. not to mention it wont have matching tweters and exterior as well

Pauly

what receiver/amp are you using?

kmart9419

I'm using a 110 watt sony str-de975 receiver. The voice quality is just not as good as with the rti70s. You can hear the difference. The voices are deeper and fuller. I'm guessing the difference may be due to a pair of stereo speakers vs. 1 mono for the center. Since the csi40 usings the same drivers, I expected the same sound.
The bose rears does not match the fronts at all. The surrounds effects are "off." Doesn't sound natural. When I use the full bose system, the surround quality is amazing. The sound blends so wonderfully. I guess that's how important timbre matching is. I guess I'll have to go and buy the rti38s.

faster100

the thing is its the same tweeter and drivers.. so it should sound as good, however its alot smaller enclosure and it wont outperform the 70's in no way.. I would place a bet its your receiver, or settings... have you calibrated your speaker levels? If not i concur to do so and then see what it sounds like

Pauly

Hmmm. I have the 70's w/ the 30 center w/ the 28's in the rear. I dont have much of a problem with the "muffle" you describe. But in when i am watching DVD's it does sound good but IMO they could sound better simply wiht more power. I am currently running them on a Onkyo @ 65wpc but they can use alot more than that. If you read some more in hear maybe do some searches Some receivers just dont match up well with polks. could be a possiblity. Another thing do you have them bi-wired? That may help out. Dunno just a sugg

kmart9419

After further playing around, the cs40i does indeed sound like the rti70s. However, the rti70 goes much deeper and sound fuller. I'm assuming that's where the size difference between the 2 comes in. Maybe I should try and stack a rti70 on top of the tv or lying it on the floor in front of the screen.
Another thing, when I switch from normal surround mode to stereo mode, the rti70s always sound louder. Not sure if that's a receiver thing or a speaker thing. I ran a tone test on the receiver and the center channel sounds slightly softer than the rti70s. The tone also sound different, possibly due to the horizontal positioning. Do you guys with same config leave the center at +0 or more? I leave it at +2 decibels.

VR3

Stereo mode is full force stereo, straight sound from 2 speakers. No effects what so ever.

When you have a full surround setup, it plays through the entire system, spreading it all out, trying less to get the same effect with less volume. So yes, stereo will be louder.

kmart9419

Okay, here's another question. I initially plan to put the center on top of the tv. But due to the size of the unit, it would not sit on top of my 36inch sony. I tried by putting a wood block in the back of the tv to support the weight and i quickly gave up after it shifted a few times. Now I have the unit underneath the tv. The csi40 is tilted slightly upwards. Would having the unit underneath the tv make a difference in sound as compared to sitting it on top of the tv?

kmart9419

Sid, so do you think the lack of clarity is due to the surround mode and not due to the csi40? I have never tried plugging the center into either the Left or Right input. Maybe you are right in that all the sound are spread out into 5 channels instead of 2. However, with dolby digital sources, I can't say that should be a problem since each channel gets its own source.

steelervic

the csi40 has a different crossover than 70's, each 6 1/2 in the 40 plays a bit different freq(one plays mainly voices, the other lower freq). the two in the 70 are crossed the same. by design the center will sound like a center and not like one of the 70's. if you prefer voices coming from both 6 1/2's you could get a rt55 and put a silk tweet in it.
vic

kmart9419

Out of curiosity, why would polk want the unit crossover at different frequencies. The rti70s sound just fine. Just how exactly should a center channel sound like? I just want a center channel to sound like any other speaker.

VR3

It makes it harder to locate the center channel, and makes things audible at all angles.....from what polk says

Airplay355

or take an rti70 xo and stick it in ur csi40....sounds like the hybrid lsic someone made

faster100

First no angle is needed,, should be aimed straight forward. having it in a cabinet will make it sound hollow, if below your tv it is in a cabinet or shelf.. I would build something so it sits on top, even level with the 70's tweeters as close as possible.. I run my center +0 and my mains at +2.. that is the way it seems to calibrate up.. for 75 db, as a reference set the center to 0 and run the test tone, then adjust the fronts to where they sound the same as the center.. or close as you can until you get a SPL meter to do it properly.

kmart9419

Sid basically answered my question. The design for the center and rti70s are different. I always thought I had a defective unit. Its too bad polk did that though. I love the way the 70s sound and wish the center is like that. Thanks guys.

VR3

Hey, you can order a RTi70 crossover from Polk and put it in the CSi40. However, it won't be right, the 70 hits way lower than the 40......worth a try though, you can return it if you dont like it....

Actually, just take one out of your mains and stick it in the center, its a real easy thing to do. I changed out my RT35i crossover in 30 minutes or so, real easy.

Solaris

At horizontal position, the mids are a certain distance apart. If they were set up to drive the same info, a two-point source would be set up and defeat the purpose of a center single source channel. Of course they can set up a virtual center by projecting the sound to a signle sweet spot in front of the center, but an interference pattern would set up to the sides of the center (beat pattern if I remember my Physics correctly)

Hope that explains it.

Best way to solve this problem is to calibrate your system, then turn the volume of the center up +1 if you want to hear more sound out of it.

Changing xover would make it sound louder and probably better for the viewer sitting dead center in front of it, but your poor wife and pets won't like the sound too much..

Solaris:)

kmart9419

Sid, I'm a speaker newbie. I have no idea how to take the 70s and 40s apart. I think I'll pass on that recommendation.
Solaris you lost me. Can you explain the horizontal thing again in layman's term. Maybe a center designed like a bose satellite might solve the sweet spot problem. That's one thing I missed about the bose, the swivel cubes. The cubes gives you the sweet spot no matter where you sit. After doing an A B test, it turns out the 70s are very very directional. The Tv placement is in a corner and the speakers are place 45 degrees to the wall. The sofa is L shaped, so the only sweet spot is dead center on the sofa. Anywhere else, you'll hear one speaker very distinctly. I never had that problem with the bose. Anyway, bose sounded so tinny and inaccurate, I had to give it up. So its quality vs soundstage.

VR3

The 70 is setup to have 2 mid-bass side by side, re-creating the same FR below 2.2khz. In doing this is blends nicely. When you seperate this between a tweeter, I would imagine it would be nicely out of wack.

The LSi9 crossover works with the LSiC because the 9 is a 2.5way unlike the RTi70.

K,
You need a SPL meter. With it, your soundstage problems wont be so obvious from what I have found.

BTW - Bose and sound don't go together. They make non-directional noise that is plain irritating....

VR3

K,
I sent you a PM, check it on the main page.

Hope the above information helped out....

Airplay355

geeze i said the same exact thing and no1 listened to me lol. put an rti70 xo in your csi40. it can be done, someone has done similar things. now i know the rti70 are towers so it will be alittle different but whatever try it.

VR3

Airplay wont work, the CSi40 dosnt hit as low as the 70, can u say.....bottuming out?

Also the 40 is a 2.5 way, and the RTi70 is a 2-way. The LSi9 is a 2.5 way, and the LSiC is a 2.5 way

shack

All this talk about changing the crossover on the center is misleading. The center is designed to give the best reproduction of the information normally sent to that channel. It is generally not required to be a full range speaker like the mains therefore the difference in the crossover. This crossover difference should if anything cause the center to be clearer.

If your center is muted it is probably one of two things that have already been mentioned here. #1 - the receiver is not set up properly (calibration will help here - and check the manual to make sure everything is hooked up the right way etc...) or #2 if everthing is right then there may be a problem with the speaker. I have the predecessor to the CSi40 (CS400i) and it is clear as a bell and not a hint of being muted. I run all of my speakers set to large and love the sound. Others may have different opinions as to how to set up the speakers (large vs small) but the 400/40 is considered to be an excellent center channel. Before I started **** around with the crossover I would go to wherever you bought it. They may let you have a demo to compare and see if it is the speaker. If that is the problem they could swap it out for a new one.

Pauly

Originally posted by shack
The center is designed to give the best reproduction of the information normally sent to that channel.

Ding Ding Ding!!! Center is a center, mains are mains, surrounds are surrounds and a sub is a sub.

wallstreet

The last thing I would want to do is change the XO on a brand new speaker. That kind of defeats the purpose of all the engineering that Polk put into the speaker. Now do you personally think you know more about building speakers than Polk? Even if you do think so, I will disagree with you. I would head out to Ultimate Electronics and buy the Sanus center channel stand for TV's that can's support a full size center channel speaker. That will get the speaker off of the floor. That in itself should improve the sound significantly. Secondly, stereo mode on integrated amplifiers always sound louder due to the fact the in 2ch mode, their is more power available to drive your speakers. All integrated amps drop their power output as you drive more channels.

deano41

is the csi40 and the cs400 the same speaker? i have the cs245 to go with my rti70s, i sure like the look of the cs400 compared to the csi40

VR3

Kind of, the 40 uses a Silk, the 400 uses a Tri Lam. Different woofers, enclosure. I guess it's not the same center after all...lol

it sounds farely similar though

faster100

yeah only the 400 is short and fat.. and the 40 is bigger, wider, and has 2 power ports... The 400 stinks in looks compared to the elegant csi40

jim_r

I agree 100% with "wallstreet". IMO, recommending changing the center's crossover to the main speaker's crossover to a self proclaimed "speaker newbie" is flat out irresponsible.