Polk Lsi9 vs Energy v5.1 vs GoldenEar Aon 3

heiney9

BeefJerky wrote: »

Besides, you've already hurt your argument by claiming that source, bitrate and encoder don't matter.

Nice twisting of words and taking them out of context to suit your own distorted view. I said they don't matter when listening to an MP3 because lossy is lossy and it's not like the original. Now comparing one MP3 to another MP3 using different bit rates, you may or may not hear a difference. My statement, which you clearly left out, had to do with Mp3 vs. the original, in that case you can put all the lipstick on the MP3 pig and it's still a pig.

I can tell the difference in my car system, which is pretty much stock, when I play mp3's vs a WAV file. MP3's suck, PERIOD and I've tried listening to all types of encoding schemes including LAME and VBR's, etc. They all are lossy and the original will sound better.

H9

steveinaz

When that sideband noise is riding on top of your music waveform (which it is, as illustrated by the nulling) it certainly DOES affect what you're hearing. The sideband noise isn't buried way down deep in the signal, it's the MP3 codec "trying" to replace missing information. There is a reason why they call them "lossy" formats.

This is just FWIW information. Just trying to point some things out.

BeefJerky

heiney9 wrote: »

Nice twisting of words and taking them out of context to suit your own distorted view. I said they don't matter when listening to an MP3 because lossy is lossy and it's not like the original. Now comparing one MP3 to another MP3 using different bit rates, you may or may not hear a difference. My statement, which you clearly left out, had to do with Mp3 vs. the original, in that case you can put all the lipstick on the MP3 pig and it's still a pig.

I can tell the difference in my car system, which is pretty much stock, when I play mp3's vs a WAV file. MP3's suck, PERIOD and I've tried listening to all types of encoding schemes including LAME and VBR's, etc. They all are lossy and the original will sound better.

H9

Are you willing to do a real blind test to support your claims? That's the only real way we can rule out the placebo effect.

steveinaz wrote: »

When that sideband noise is riding on top of your music waveform (which it is, as illustrated by the nulling) it certainly DOES affect what you're hearing. The sideband noise isn't buried way down deep in the signal, it's the MP3 codec "trying" to replace missing information. There is a reason why they call them "lossy" formats.

This is just FWIW information. Just trying to point some things out.

I'm aware of how lossy codecs work, and I'm also aware of what sideband noise is. I just choose not to condemn a format based on misinformation, exaggerations and blind hatred.

heiney9

Why do I need to prove it to you? You won't change your mind when I successfully prove to YOU I can hear a difference. What is that going to do for your beliefs, especially since I assume you have done the exact same thing you are asking me to do, where's your proof and methodology? The thing is, I don't care if YOU can't hear a difference, but I can, and that's all that matters to ME.

Blind test are terribly flawed.

H9

BeefJerky

heiney9 wrote: »

Why do I need to prove it to you? You won't change your mind when I successfully prove to YOU I can hear a difference.

Sure I would. I'm able to handle being proven wrong.

What is that going to do for your beliefs, especially since I assume you have done the exact same thing you are asking me to do, where's your proof and methodology?

Nothing fancy. I've used Foobar's built-in DBT test. Sometimes it's easy to tell the difference between a lossy and lossless file; other times, it is not possible for me or anyone else around to tell the difference.

The thing is, I don't care if YOU can't hear a difference, but I can, and that's all that matters to ME.

Good for you.

Blind test are terribly flawed.

Only to people who can't handle the thought that the placebo effect exists.

heiney9

Foobar??? Are you kidding me.

I ripped LAME encoded Mp3's and ripped the same WAV to FLAC using the same program, streamed to my main rig and didn't have to listen very long to hear the difference. I had someone else playing the files randomly.

My main rig is very, very resolving and the differences were very apparent even with tubes in the mix.

I am done arguing with you. Listen to your MP3's all you want, it's your perogative. For me and my listening experience they stink and have no place in a serious audiophile rig.

H9

nhhiep

ok, so it sounds like i need monitor, nearfield speakers instead. What are you guys suggesting? Passive would be nice since I can use my HK amp and save money vs active speakers. I am looking to spend around $500. I am looking for a nice balance sound. yes, even the Lsi9s sound bright in my situation.

EndersShadow

nhhiep wrote: »

ok, so it sounds like i need monitor, nearfield speakers instead. What are you guys suggesting? Passive would be nice since I can use my HK amp and save money vs active speakers. I am looking to spend around $500. I am looking for a nice balance sound. yes, even the Lsi9s sound bright in my situation.

Audioengine makes a set of passive nearfeild speakers the P5's I believe which would work well for your application. Its basically a A5 without amplification. I have also heard good things about Behringer TRUTH B2031P & TRUTH B2030P which are carried at guitarcenter. Both the Behringer's will need a sub.

Here are some options from GuitarCenter: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Unpowered-Monitors-Studio-Monitors,New-Gear.gc

steveinaz

Maybe something from the Epos line?

cnh

I don't know what to tell you because a lot of near field monitors will also sound bright. You want to hear all those highs and detail if you're mixing sound! Plus, near fields are supposed to be ruler Flat which often makes for an un-involved musical presentation.

To have speakers on your desk like that they'd also need to be a lot smaller so you can toe them into your listening space and have a little distance between you and them. What I eventually did is give up on "super fidelity" and stick a pair of Realistic Minimus 7s on a couple of 8" stands on either side of my desk and used an old 40 watt x 2 silver face Kenwood to power them. The extra set of speaker terminals on the Kenwood allows for a small sub to assist the 7s. Because of the size and the effortless ability to aim the 7s at me. I find them a very cheap and acceptable solution to my computer needs. If I want to listen to something in a higher fidelity mode I have the set of LSi-7s on the other side of the room for that (see rig below).

But it sounds like you want to go with a "one" set up solution.

(MP3s? If you can't hear the difference between a good Redbook and an MP3 file--any MP3 file--then it's time to see an Audiologist).

cnh

nwohlford

heiney9 wrote: »

Blind test are terribly flawed.

This is a terribly ignorant statement (since you seem to enjoy hyperbole). While the methodology of any test can be flawed, a non-blinded test is by definition flawed when humans are involved. Obviously there are cases where blind testing is not possible, so occasionally non-blinded testing has to be used. It is of course important to properly design any test in order for the results to be valid.

nhhiep wrote: »

they're around 3ft from me. So, with 3 that I mentioned. Lsi9 is the warmest?

I would not describe the LSi9s as warm, but more detailed and can be very revealing. Maybe placement issues aside you do not really like the sound of the LSi9s and would like something a little less revealing.

steveinaz

Being that close to the speakers, your gonna need something with a more laid-back treble character; and it should definitely be a 2-way design.

nhhiep

have any of you tried. Krk R6 ? it's a passive monitor

http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/r6.html#

cnh

Haven't heard those. The specs are fine (but you can never tell what a speaker is going to sound like from its specs alone--really have to do an audition).

Maybe someone else has heard these?

OK, looks like Zero has!

cnh

EndersShadow

nhhiep wrote: »

have any of you tried. Krk R6 ? it's a passive monitor

http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/r6.html#

If its anything like the Rokit 6 it will sound awesome. I for the longest time wanted to get the KRK G2 Rokit 6's for my office.

nhhiep

Zero wrote: »

Been here, done this many times. Short list the following: Sonus Faber Toy's or the Dali Mentor Menuet's.

are the Sonus Faber Toy's using the same tweeter as the lsi?

nhhiep

Tannoy Reveal 601P passive monitor looks like a good deal with for $250/pair

steveinaz

Sean (Zero) has a good ear. Trust me on that.

Drenis

As was mentioned to me when I was looking, Concentric speakers should be on your radar. Check out the Q series from KEF and some Tannoy's.

nhhiep

I read reviews of the Usher S-520 that Zero suggested. many said they're on the bright side. is that true? brighter than Lsi?

heiney9

Most budget speakers, studio monitors or not, are going to be brighter than the LSi's, by a wide margin.

H9

steveinaz

BeefJerky wrote: »

Did you even read what I wrote? Playing the sideband by itself means nothing; it's the noise floor in relation to the file that matters. And, drselect isn't really wrong. The level of the music can make a difference since it could be a larger or smaller s/n ratio.

Beef---go here, I found the video: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?130411-MP3...sound-just-as-good-as-anything-else&p=1739279#post1739279

nhhiep

Sonus Faber Toy looks great. but can't find many places online or offline that sell this brand. where did you buy yours?

brianle

nhhiep wrote: »

I read reviews of the Usher S-520 that Zero suggested. many said they're on the bright side. is that true? brighter than Lsi?

Yes, I had the Usher s-520 on the setup before I replaced with the LSi9. They're bright and hot ... lol

nhhiep

what about those new GoldenEar Aeo 6? their tweeter is different from the rest. So far I 've been running in pure direct. I will try the tone control of my Denon this weekend to see if I can lower the brightness down a little because I really enjoy the mid/low of the Lsi9. Surprising, the 7-10yrs old Infinity overture 1 (same MSRP) is easier to listen to, but it has an active sub, which won't turn on in low vol. does anyone know a way keep it on all the time? or to by pass it?

zane77

Steve, Thanks for posting the link to the other thread, I had seen this talked about but never saw a demonstration. Hearing is beleiving!

txcoastal1

MP3's blow....proved it to my step sun while running while running mixes through his DJ equipment trying his MP3's vs. my lossless rips the analyzer missed alot of peaks in valleys of the sounds in MP3 he was shocked and now a converted lossless addicted show off to his friends

Cheers

nhhiep

This weekend, I played around with the Denon AVR's EQ and set to the following. Before I had EQ off. Now, it's a bit less bright. I think I will hang on to the Lsi9 because I really enjoy the mid, plus $510 shipped is a killer deal.

-1db 2khz
-2db 4khz
-3db 8khz
-4db 16khz

What do you guys think? is it too much?
Surprisingly, I was able to apply EQ in Pure Direct Mode.

cnh

It's hard to say because they're your ears. But it makes some sense cutting the highs progressively if they sound too bright.

Of course, the purists will say "no" "no" to any equalization. But again. They don't hear what "you" hear.

So have fun, play with it some more and tell us what you think!

cnh

nhhiep

for fun, yesterday I turned the Vol on my AVR to 0 (max) in full range mode. I couldn't believe the amount of bass I got. The lights in my room even dimmed when the bass hit. I guess it was over 300 WPC, since my AMP only lists 300 WPC for 8 ohms, so I assume in 4ohms, it would be at least 300.

I used the test below and it goes down to 40hz. big fall off after that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwrbFj9r10Y&feature=related