SDA-SRS 1.2tl Amp Suggestion

xoaphexox

Re-reading these posts and running some online searches - what is the difference between the Carver M-1.5t and the Carver tfm series? Anything noteworthy?

Also this Adcom GFA-5802 looks like it is now a contender. I realize it's a decent amount more expensive but the reviews speak for themselves. Using F1nut's reasoning it must be much better than the Carver TFM series or Adcom GFA-555ii because I can't find any for sale!

Update: It looks like there are several 1.5t's on eBay for 'parts or repair' along with a place in California selling replacement capacitor workups for some proprietary capacitors in the unit. With a history of 32 sold, I am leaning towards staying away from the 1.5t, although the marketing for the amp sure does read well.

xoaphexox

FWIW I think I have narrowed my search down to the Adcom GFA-5802, Sunfire 300x2, or Emotiva XPA-2. They are all about the same price and on average appear to get better reviews than the (cheaper) Carver TFM or Adcom 555ii.

Any glaring issues narrowing between these three amps? I read the 5802 is not common ground and will need to be strapped as I have no A-1... how about the Sunfire or Emotiva?

heiney9

The Emotiva isn't in the same class, by far. The 5802 would be my choice, by far.

H9

xoaphexox

heiney9 wrote: »

The Emotiva isn't in the same class, by far. The 5802 would be my choice, by far.

H9

Thanks for that - I like that the Sunfire and Adcom are biwire ready... what is a good price for a working (no dents or faceplate scratches) 5802?

Schurkey

xoaphexox wrote: »

Emotiva XPA-2.

Communist Chinese crap.

Reconsider the Acurus A-250

FTGV

xoaphexox wrote: »

...I read the 5802 is not common ground and will need to be strapped...

Yes it's an example of a non common gound amp that can be made common ground by strapping.

xoaphexox

Schurkey wrote: »

Communist Chinese crap.

Reconsider the Acurus A-250

I'll take a look!

audio_alan

Schurkey wrote: »

Communist Chinese crap.

If you're going to make strong statements like that, should we throw the iPad and iPhone into that category as well (since they are made in "Communist China" also)?

As people frequently have said on this site, a great system is about component synergy. Those that make strong statements against the Emotiva XPA-2 might not have found that synergy. I, for one, believe I have. Or, maybe the rest of my components aren't good enough to expose the flaws of the XPA-2. Which is right, I don't know, but I think the XPA-2 is a LOT better than people give it credit for (in my opinion!). Who knows though, maybe I just got lucky and "got a good one". It's also possible that I don't have enough experience with other amps...

However, in my experience with the XPA-2 (with a Dared-2000a tube pre and MIT cables), it's superior to my Adcom 555 II. A friend of mine thought the same thing after a listening test. How does the XPA-2 compare against a Sunfire? You've got me, I've never owned a Sunfire. I've heard one before, but without putting it in my room, on my speakers, with my cables, I'd just be guessing.

This isn't meant to start an amp war, but I think people need to hear varying opinions, especially from people that have had experience with the component and like it.

<steps down off soap box>

Out of curiosity, Schurkey, what model Emotiva have you owned?

nooshinjohn

The Sunfire 300/2 or any of the Sig series amps and SDA's is a match made in heaven by audio Gods for mere mortals like us. Cannot go wrong with that amp.

Schurkey

audio_alan wrote: »

Out of curiosity, Schurkey, what model Emotiva have you owned?

I own American-made Aragon amplifiers and preamp/processor. Purchased second-hand or as a clearance-priced closeout because otherwise I couldn't afford merchandise of that quality.

I avoid buying Communist-sourced junk unless there's extenuating circumstances, such as "the Communists and their American collaborators have already destroyed that section of American industry". Let me head off the inevitable retort: Yes, my computer is Communist-sourced. Name an American-produced laptop. The Communists and the Communist Collaborators have ALREADY destroyed that section of American product. I have NO CHOICE but to buy Communist computers. I'd hate for that to happen to high-end audio electronics...but it's in-progress.

Buying Communist crap when there's still an American, North American, or Free World competing product is very silly. Exporting money to the Chinese when our own economy is in the toilet is about one step away from economic suicide.

That is why I've suggested an Acurus A-250. American-designed, American-produced...and yet still in the price range (used) that the original poster has in mind. No, it's not an Aragon, with the Aragon-trademark huge power supply. It IS well-designed, and the equal or better of the Carver/Adcom/Sunfire equipment on his short-list.

heiney9

Yet if he buys something used, no money is going to China.

No fan of Emo here, but not because of it's ties to China, simply because it's an entry level amp and of the other 2 choices you mentioned I'd pick the 5802. I've heard all of them and the 5802 is the most musical in my experience with the Emo bringing up the rear by a wide margin comparatively.

xoaphexox

I like the idea of a 5 year warranty on the Emo but I like the idea of slightly better sound quality (ignoring the country of origin debate) for the same money in a GFA-5802 or Sunfire 300x2.

Honestly I don't think I will be unhappy with any of these amps. I just need to sit and wait for one to show up on eBay or Audiogon.

I looked at the Acurus A-250 reviews online and I appreciate the suggestion. The price is certainly right on that one, so if one of those pops up too I may jump on it.

I achieved the goal of this thread - to get a "short list" of power amps that I have a very small chance of "going wrong" with. I don't live in a place or have a circle of friends that would easily allow me to test these different amps before buying so I threw out some bait here because I knew I could live vicariously off the anecdotes of 'synergy' from my fellow Polkies.

Thanks for all your input, guys - I will eventually post back and let you know what I tried and how I liked it - and if I didn't like it, it doesn't seem like it will be an issue quickly reselling any of these amps - it looks similar to choosing Ferrari vs Lamborghini at this level of price and performance.

nooshinjohn

xoaphexox wrote: »

Thanks for all your input, guys - I will eventually post back and let you know what I tried and how I liked it - and if I didn't like it, it doesn't seem like it will be an issue quickly reselling any of these amps - it looks similar to choosing Ferrari vs Lamborghini at this level of price and performance.

If it helps... Enzo Ferrari thought that Lamborghini built a great tractor. Lamborghini thought that Enzo was an a$$hole.:cheesygrin:

heiney9

xoaphexox wrote: »

it looks similar to choosing Ferrari vs Lamborghini at this level of price and performance.

Actually it's not. The Emo isn't in the same class. You can certainly choose it, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's on the same playing level as the other 3.

H9

xoaphexox

heiney9 wrote: »

Actually it's not. The Emo isn't in the same class. You can certainly choose it, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's on the same playing level as the other 3.

H9

Is that based on specs, or...? Just trying to understand. If the Acurus A250 is in the same league as the 5082 and Sunfire then it seem like the hands down winner because it is less than half the cost of them.

audio_alan

Schurkey wrote: »

I own American-made Aragon amplifiers and preamp/processor. Purchased second-hand or as a clearance-priced closeout because otherwise I couldn't afford merchandise of that quality.

I avoid buying Communist-sourced junk unless there's extenuating circumstances....

Thanks for the clarification. It's good to know that your "Communist Chinese crap" comment is stricktly based on economics and a "Buy American" philosophy, and not actually from knowing how the product performs or having owned one. Don't get me wrong, buying American-made products is a good thing, but when someone asks about a product's performance, economic bias has no place. As H9 pointed out, if you buy second-hand the country of origin isn't getting the money anyway, so you should be buying it on the merits of the product exclusively.

I know H9 has experience with an Emotiva product (not sure which one), so I respect his opinion on the subject. However, I respecfully disagree with his observations as they differ from mine. I will say that without a doubt H9 is more experienced in hifi audio gear than I am, so his comments might deserve more weight than mine on this subject...

Perhaps these reviewers are blow-hards, but they sure seem to talk favorably about the XPA-2, with real facts about the power of these amps via benchmarks:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/emotiva-xpa-2

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/power-amplifiers/496-a-secrets-power-amplifier-review.html

Of course, benchmarks aren't everything. So for comparison's sake, here's a guy that owned an Acurus A-250 which was fried in a lightning strike. He purchased an XPA-2 as a replacement, and he didn't send it back...

http://positive-feedback.com/Issue58/emotiva_xpa.htm

To the original poster, good luck with your decision. There's a lot of gear out there....

Toolfan66

audio_alan wrote: »

If you're going to make strong statements like that, should we throw the iPad and iPhone into that category as well (since they are made in "Communist China" also)?

As people frequently have said on this site, a great system is about component synergy. Those that make strong statements against the Emotiva XPA-2 might not have found that synergy. I, for one, believe I have. Or, maybe the rest of my components aren't good enough to expose the flaws of the XPA-2. Which is right, I don't know, but I think the XPA-2 is a LOT better than people give it credit for (in my opinion!). Who knows though, maybe I just got lucky and "got a good one". It's also possible that I don't have enough experience with other amps...

However, in my experience with the XPA-2 (with a Dared-2000a tube pre and MIT cables), it's superior to my Adcom 555 II. A friend of mine thought the same thing after a listening test. How does the XPA-2 compare against a Sunfire? You've got me, I've never owned a Sunfire. I've heard one before, but without putting it in my room, on my speakers, with my cables, I'd just be guessing.

This isn't meant to start an amp war, but I think people need to hear varying opinions, especially from people that have had experience with the component and like it.

<steps down off soap box>

Out of curiosity, Schurkey, what model Emotiva have you owned?

Just to add here, I owned an XPA-2 and hated it I couldn't get it out of my house fast enough. Then not long ago I spent some time at Alan's house and got to listen to his rig, and as he stated above he has the XPA-2 with the Dared tube pre, and I was shocked at what I was hearing!! Alan's rig sounds fantastic IMO!!! It did not work in my rig but it does in his not sure why other then Synergy...

audio_alan

Toolfan66 wrote: »

Just to add here, I owned an XPA-2 and hated it I couldn't get it out of my house fast enough. Then not long ago I spent some time at Alan's house and got to listen to his rig, and as he stated above he has the XPA-2 with the Dared tube pre, and I was shocked at what I was hearing!! Alan's rig sounds fantastic IMO!!! It did not work in my rig but it does in his not sure why other then Synergy...

It's apparent that the old adages of - "what's one man's junk is another man's treasure" and "your millage may vary" - rings true with audio equipment. Different amps, different pre's, and dare I say it, different cables, all give people a unique perspective on what is good or not.

Perhaps if I've owned as many amps as some of you guys, I might think the Emo is crap too. But for some reason it seems to "work" in my rig, and Larry's comments seem to echo that, so maybe I'm not crazy after-all...

Anyway, no offense to anyone, I'm just trying to give the equipment that I own (and like!) a fair shake in the discussion.

xoaphexox

I ended up with an Adcom GFA-5802. Will post my impressions when it arrives.

cjmustang69

I believe you will be happy with the GFA-5802. Based on reviews of this amp found on the net - including reviews by members on this forum - I'm using 2 GFA-5802 amps on my Kappa 9 speakers. I couldn't be happier with their performance. For their price - I believe they are hard to beat.

heiney9

xoaphexox wrote: »

I ended up with an Adcom GFA-5802. Will post my impressions when it arrives.

Excellent choice. It's not common ground so you will either need the AI-1 cable or you can strap the negative speaker terminals. If you do the latter, be sure and use a nice thick guage piece of cable.

H9

xoaphexox

Unboxed and hooked up the GFA-5802 today. Breaking it in with some Led Zeppelin. I have the interconnect cable currently unplugged because I have not yet bridged the negative terminals on the amp. I have a question about that -

Could I just cut a short patch cable from 12 gauge speaker cable and put banana plugs on the ends to strap the negatives?

I plan to use spade terminals with my Acoustic Research Master Series 10 gauge speaker cable and run it in the bi-wire configuration.

Just want to get an opinion before I do this as I would hate to risk damaging the amp.

Lastly - one side runs noticeably warmer than the other - does it sound like I need to get the service manual and perform a bias adjustment?

xoaphexox

Using an infrared thermometer, one channel is 112 deg F about 5 minutes after turn-on. The other channel is 101 deg F - is that enough of a disparity to be cause for concern?

Thanks much - I like what I hear thus far!

FTGV

xoaphexox wrote: »

Could I just cut a short patch cable from 12 gauge speaker cable and put banana plugs on the ends to strap the negatives?

Sure just be certain they are secure. An inadvertant disconnect could put a few resistors at risk.

- one side runs noticeably warmer than the other - does it sound like I need to get the service manual and perform a bias adjustment?

Yes likely a biasing issue but unless you absolutely know what your doing I would leave the adjustment up to a qualified tech.Misadjustment or accidental slip of a meter probe and you'll have a mono bloc or worse a boat anchor.

xoaphexox

Thanks for the input! Now I just need to find that service manual. I am comfortable setting the bias as long as I have a trustworthy service manual in hand. I've worked on many vintage amps in the past but this will be my first time opening up an amp manufactured more recently than 1979... :redface:

FTGV

xoaphexox wrote: »

Using an infrared thermometer, one channel is 112 deg F about 5 minutes after turn-on. The other channel is 101 deg F - is that enough of a disparity to be cause for concern?

!

10 deg is significant but give it about an hour to warm up and then compare.

xoaphexox

FTGV wrote: »

10 deg is significant but give it about an hour to warm up and then compare.

I think you're on to something - they are currently at 122 and 119 degrees now. I presume this may be one of the reasons that amplifier manuals tell you to turn on the unit about 30 minutes prior to listening.... I learn something new every day in this hobby. Thanks again!

FTGV

xoaphexox wrote: »

I presume this may be one of the reasons that amplifier manuals tell you to turn on the unit about 30 minutes prior to listening....

Yes it usually takes some time for the bias to stabilize.

Thanks again!

Your welcome.

btw. I'm not certain of the differences but these folks have a SM for the 5800 but only the schem. for the 5802.http://www.hifi-manuals.com/Adcom/page-3

xoaphexox

Okay, so if I was not planning to bi-wire, would this be an acceptible way to strap the negatives so that I can use them with my SDA-SRS 1.2tl? I think it is, but I really want to measure twice and cut once. I can't afford any puffs of magic smoke to come out.

The "bi wire" speaker posts on the back are only populated with the patch cord going between the negative terminals. I believe the "bi wire" and the "normal" speaker posts are electrically equivalent and as such this would be the same as adding a wire across the negatives that are plugged in.

Thanks much!

FTGV

Yes the biwire binding posts are paralleled with the main outputs.