Loudness War

disneyjoe7

Why is the question, when we as consumers can control the volume on our end? Why.... what's in it for them?

mdaudioguy

It's not about volume, but dynamics. The majority think it sounds better when levels are boosted across the range... this is on iPods, basic car stereos, etc... Especially when the source is radio.

Serendipity

When you decrease the dynamic range, the average loudness increases...which may work fine in noisy environments such as listening with earbuds in a subway, or in a crowded restaurant, etc. But when you turn the volume control down, to compensate for the higher average levels, you don't get the same quality as a recording without the compression.

steveinaz

I guess record companies "think" the consumer thinks louder is better. Stupid really; I doubt anybody on the planet has returned a CD because it wasn't recorded loud.

mdaudioguy

steveinaz wrote: »

I guess record companies "think" the consumer thinks louder is better. Stupid really; I doubt anybody on the planet has returned a CD because it wasn't recorded loud.

I'm thinking that their thinking is more like: People will be more likely to notice this single when hearing it through the means which most people first hear new music - on the radio, in the car, in a public place, etc... The point is to sell... Some artists are probably concerned by this, while others are not. They write and record their material and then put it in the hands of the labels to mix and market it. Unfortunately, these last two steps are closely related to each other. To most people, you could explain the loudness "problem" until you're blue in the face - they won't care, if they still think it's a good song.

tonyb

If you think back in time Steve, they have had that same thought process all along. Speakers back in the day were built to play loud, not necessarily good, just loud. Thats how we listened back then. Now, with ipods and such, we listen differently so to make things loud, well, you get what you have today.

Obsession18

mdaudioguy wrote: »

It's not about volume, but dynamics. The majority think it sounds better when levels are boosted across the range... this is on iPods, basic car stereos, etc... Especially when the source is radio.

The thing with radio is that each station varies the volume of a specific song so that all songs play at about the same volume on the users end, that way we listeners aren't turning the volume up and down. This kind of defeats the purpose of the loudness war at least when it comes to radio playback.

I'd also like to add I HATE this loudness war crap, it makes most new artist CD's almost unlistenable.

Syndil

Loudness affects the variations in volume within a single song, not variations in volume among several songs--doesn't matter what the radio station does to change the volume of each song to match one another. A track with its loudness boosted will have less contrast between the soft parts of the song and the loud parts of the song.

I can understand why it's done for music that's played on the radio, but they should have separate recordings for radio play vs CD play.

Serendipity

IMO, there should be a "loudness" setting on most consumer electronic equipment to allow the listener to adjust the dynamic range compression, instead of being at the mercy of the recording or mastering engineers.

For example, for those who live in a big city know that it is difficult to listen to classical music in a crowded bus or subway without having to constantly adjust the volume. Same for those who enjoy classical music in the car. I personally am a huge fan of classical music and certain instruments are difficult to hear in a noisy environment. Piano, on the other hand, is relatively easy to hear so most of my recordings played in the car are solo recordings of a single instrument.

On the flip side, dynamic range compression sounds terrible at home because of the quiet environment. On systems that can really show the details of a flawed recording, dynamic range compression induces headaches (at least for me) and introduces harmonics that sound like a mass of "swirling sound" or distortion. IMO, it would be best to be able to listen to the full dynamic range / uncompressed recording at home and have a button on the car stereo to allow for dynamic range compression.

That way, when I listen on a quality system I can hear all the details and when I am in a busy environment I can still listen to the same recording. Many restaurants use dynamic range compression to allow for lower PA system levels but still hear the music, why not add such functionality to your car stereo, etc. so the recordings can have full dynamic range and the level of compression is up to the user to adjust?

Just my opinion.

decal

Serendipity wrote: »

Just my opinion.

Therein lies the problem. Most consumer electronic manufacturers aren't worried about the opinions of the minority that audiophiles represent to them. The masses are what keeps them in business, not us.

steveinaz

Agree, however I think their thinking process is flawed. Those not interested in ultimate fidelity are likely doing the mp3 download thing, and aren't buying CD's in the first place. CD's should be targeted for audiophiles, and should have always been marketed this way. But what do I know, I have no college de-gree.

It's no different from the 70's and 80's where audiophiles bought albums, non-audiophiles borrowed albums from friends to put on 8-track or cassette.

Bottom line, CD's should be marketed (engineered/recorded) for the discerning listener. This would do nothing but IMPROVE sales.

Hmm...maybe I should get a marketing degree.....

disneyjoe7

True Steve, making CD's like they do, does nothing for sales and they have shoot them self in their foot.

Syndil

The catch here is that radio airplay is the driving force behind the majority of CD sales.

decal

You guys are just gonna have to accept the fact that the music industry is geared toward the masses not the few. Always has been,always will be. There will always be some audiophile recording labels, producers,etc. but they will always be few and far between.

steveinaz

I could "maybe" understand their motivations if it was somehow cheaper to produce an overly compressed CD, but that isn't even a factor---so why would you make an inferior product, when making a good product requires zero extra cost/effort? I can understand TV's and "torch mode" because quite often you are looking at TV's and doing a visual comparison. How the hell would anyone know that CD "a" is louder than CD "b"...furthermore, who the hell would care? The whole issue just doesn't make any sense.

I think it's stupidity, and poor marketing technique.

agfrost

My OEM stereo on my Ford Fusion does have a "compression" setting available for CDs. (I know that the first thing you likely do to a new car is to replace the stereo, Serendipity!) I leave it off.

Serendipity wrote: »

IMO, there should be a "loudness" setting on most consumer electronic equipment to allow the listener to adjust the dynamic range compression, instead of being at the mercy of the recording or mastering engineers.

For example, for those who live in a big city know that it is difficult to listen to classical music in a crowded bus or subway without having to constantly adjust the volume. Same for those who enjoy classical music in the car. I personally am a huge fan of classical music and certain instruments are difficult to hear in a noisy environment. Piano, on the other hand, is relatively easy to hear so most of my recordings played in the car are solo recordings of a single instrument.

On the flip side, dynamic range compression sounds terrible at home because of the quiet environment. On systems that can really show the details of a flawed recording, dynamic range compression induces headaches (at least for me) and introduces harmonics that sound like a mass of "swirling sound" or distortion. IMO, it would be best to be able to listen to the full dynamic range / uncompressed recording at home and have a button on the car stereo to allow for dynamic range compression.

That way, when I listen on a quality system I can hear all the details and when I am in a busy environment I can still listen to the same recording. Many restaurants use dynamic range compression to allow for lower PA system levels but still hear the music, why not add such functionality to your car stereo, etc. so the recordings can have full dynamic range and the level of compression is up to the user to adjust?

Just my opinion.

steveinaz

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

True Steve, making CD's like they do, does nothing for sales and they have shoot them self in their foot.

Precisely, the only market share they could hope to grab (discerning listeners who want the physical media) are the very ones being turned off by their stupid marketing ploys. Are people at this level really this stupid? Every year it's the same headline "CD sales continue to plunge as....." YA THINK? The MP3 crowd couldn't care less, and their not buying your CD's in the first place. Dumb, dumb, dumb.