New economy car dilemma

Serendipity

So I have come to the point where I need a small, economical car for travel to and from work everyday. I am an Electrical Engineer. So I don't need to carry anything - at most, some test equipment and a laptop. I've looked at several new cars, and really don't know what would be the best choice for a basic, no-frills vehicle. I am looking at cars that are as simple as possible but can last a long time.

Some requirements:

- I want to pay cash. That means, $15k or under (Versa, Rio, Soul, etc.)
- Must be simple as I don't like lots of gizmos (don't want power windows, etc.)
- May be either a manual or automatic transmission.
- Easy to work on! I want to change my plugs, belts, filters MYSELF.
- Don't care the look or color.
- Must be reliable!

So what do you Polkies recommend? Thanks in advance!

PrazVT

How about the Honda Fit? One of the best cars in the B segment, though it's due for a refresh.

The Chevy Sonic got a good review as well recently in MT I believe.

mhardy6647

My (5-sp manual) Fiesta is a little more junked-up than what you're looking for - but the base model, I think, might meet all of your criteria.
Mine is averaging 40.5 mpg as I type this (does better than 41 in the summertime) over ca. 22,000 miles of mixed driving to date. I hear you vis-a-vis manual window winders - my old Focus had 'em; this model Fiesta doesn't.

EDIT I doubt that you'll find anything in this day and age that is easy for a backyard mechanic to work on.

Serendipity

mhardy6647 wrote: »

EDIT I doubt that you'll find anything in this day and age that is easy for a backyard mechanic to work on.

It's not too hard to change the plugs on a modern American car. Just remove the spark plug wires, pull the plugs, and replace. From my experience, the only difficulty is clearance - you need to have a good socket wrench extension to replace the rear plugs. And I can't imagine a serpentine belt being too hard on a small 4cyl. compact car. Brakes are okay if you have the retractor tool that cranks the piston back in the calipers. And air filters and coolant are easy to me IMO.

Serendipity

Actually, this should be better phrased "which models would be the easiest for a DIY'er to work on"?

Jstas

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-AMC-PACER-/330690509527?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4cfeb0bad7

It's well within your price range too!

bobsauto49

Find yerself a 98-04 chev cavalier! Best bang/gas mileage car i know of! No B.S!!!!!

jbooker82

Jstas wrote: »

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-AMC-PACER-/330690509527?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4cfeb0bad7

It's well within your price range too!

The Green House

jbooker82

I would look for a Jetta TDI. It is a diesel but it gets awesome fuel economy.

Serendipity

Are you suggesting I look at a used Jetta TDI? I was originally looking at new cars, such as the Accent/SX4/Rio/Versa/Sonic, and didn't really look into used. This is a lot of money to me, and I'd hate to buy something and not get what was expected, so that's why I originally did not want something used.

disneyjoe7

Honda new or used your choice

PerfectCreature

I vote for the Kia Soul. My parent have one, and they have had zero problems with it. It does have a bunch of features, which I am sure they upgraded too...but it has 29,000 miles and all they have done is oil changed and new tires.

rromeo923

I always buy off lease. Best deals IMO. I have an 2003 Infiniti G35 I bought in 2007 that was coming off a 3yr lease w/ 35k miles for $16000.
Check it out. Definitely opens up more possibilities. In General the car was taken care of thru dealer maintenance and the previous owner wanted to make sure they could turn the car in without having to pay. Let someone else take the devaluation that happens as soon as the car is used.

jbooker82

Serendipity wrote: »

Are you suggesting I look at a used Jetta TDI? I was originally looking at new cars, such as the Accent/SX4/Rio/Versa/Sonic, and didn't really look into used. This is a lot of money to me, and I'd hate to buy something and not get what was expected, so that's why I originally did not want something used.

Yea it would have to be used but still might be out of your price range. Diesels do require some special care, especially if your in the colder northern winter climate.

The problem with buying any new car is you take a huge hit to the pocket book when you sign the papers and drive it off the lot. Compair any of the cars your looking at bran new price vs. a 1-2 year old one with 10-20k miles on it.

The 1-2 year old ones should still be almost in bran new condition, and if they are not then it has been ratted out and should be avoided any way. If your trying to get the most car for your money then it should deffinatly be used. Just make sure you buy it from a reputable car lot. Not some fly by night place.

Syndil

A used car would best suit your needs IMO.

mhardy6647

Syndil wrote: »

A used car would best suit your needs IMO.

It's true that one wastes a lot of money (several thousand smackers) just driving a new car off the lot on purchase day... no doubt not taking that initial depreciation hit is fiscally prudent.

Someone mentioned buying off-lease; this is usually a very good value. We did this with one vehicle, a 2004 Freestar minivan - don't laugh - they come in handy when one has kids in college to schlep back and forth to school annually...

heiney9

mhardy6647 wrote: »

edit i doubt that you'll find anything in this day and age that is easy for a backyard mechanic to work on.

+1000

h9

mhardy6647

Serendipity wrote: »

It's not too hard to change the plugs on a modern American car. Just remove the spark plug wires, pull the plugs, and replace. From my experience, the only difficulty is clearance - you need to have a good socket wrench extension to replace the rear plugs. And I can't imagine a serpentine belt being too hard on a small 4cyl. compact car. Brakes are okay if you have the retractor tool that cranks the piston back in the calipers. And air filters and coolant are easy to me IMO.

So - the days of dropping the engine to get at a couple of the spark plugs is over now, is it? Not to mention that they last over 100k miles now, anyway.

Yeah, I imagine belts and brakes are still do-able. I stopped changing my own fluids because it's cheaper and better for my blood pressure to let the dealer do it.

Have some fun changing a headlamp on a modern Tahoe/Suburban thingy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwr8hN8Dtsc

source: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5393688&postcount=19

Serendipity

FWIW, I just changed the plugs, air filter, P/S fluid, oil, and oil filter on the Vette this weekend. Most common problem was clearance. Having the right tools (borrowed some from my neighbor) made a big difference. However, my Maxima is a pain to get to the rear plugs so I see where you are coming from.

That being said, are small compact cars harder to work on?

Serendipity

mhardy6647 wrote: »

So - the days of dropping the engine to get at a couple of the spark plugs is over now, is it? Not to mention that they last over 100k miles now, anyway.

I agree, the rear plugs on a Nissan VQ30DE are difficult to get access to.

mhardy6647

Serendipity wrote: »

FWIW, I just changed the plugs, air filter, P/S fluid, oil, and oil filter on the Vette this weekend. Most common problem was clearance. Having the right tools (borrowed some from my neighbor) made a big difference. However, my Maxima is a pain to get to the rear plugs so I see where you are coming from.

That being said, are small compact cars harder to work on?

Dunno, but not necessarily. I would think a transverse-mounted engine in an FWD car (even a tiny one such as the Fiesta and the others under consideration in this thread ) wouldn't be too bad in that regard.

Serendipity

Thank you. That's why in my quote in the post above "which models would be the easiest for a DIY'er to work on?" I'm dead serious.

One of the things I want to get away from is the service annoyances of the Maxima. Scraped knuckles and stuff like that due to really weird design layout. Even the oil filter on that V6 sits sideways with little clearance. Compared to the Vette, it just goes on from the bottom in 1-2-3.

Had to replace the ignition coils on the Maxima, dealer charged $750 and most of that was labor due to the time it took. I heard about similar issues with the Acura MDX, people complaining about the amount of labor it takes for what should be a straightforward repair.

heiney9

My car is 13 years old and there is no way to do any sort of general maint., unless you plan on spending the entire day tearing things apart and using special tools. Changing plugs? Forget about it unless you have the specified spark plug boot puller and about 2-3 hours to disassemble part of the intake shrouding a few other things to even reach them.

Cars just aren't that friendly anymore for home mechanics unless you have a full garage of tools and a lot of time. Some things are better than others on different cars, but on the average don't expect them to be easy to work on.

All the work can be done if you are knowledgeable, just how much time are you willing to spend to do it. If it takes a dealer a long time to do a repair double it for the typical home mechanic. The dealer knows all the shortcuts and the best way to approach it.

Plus today you need to invest in some fairly expensive diagnotic software to access all the codes, etc.

H9

Serendipity

heiney9,

I agree. There were several times my mom said "why don't you just take it to a mechanic" after spending lots of time disassembling, going to buy new tools, and having band-aids on the knuckles.

Yes, I have the spark plug boot puller and a decent socket wrench extension after using my neighbor's.

That being said, the easier to work on the better. Ya know...

heiney9

I know, but you are going to have to do a lot of research, because reliable info on new cars like that isn't going to be easy to find. There are so many variables, etc. Of course if you narrow down your search to a few models then you can research just those models or even looking at them at the dealer and determine for yourself. The manufacturer's aren;t doing any favors in this area and all cars have certain design failings.

Good luck

H9

Serendipity

I am thinking about a Kia Soul. Base 1.6L 4-cylinder, manual transmission, no options.

Very competitively priced and a long warranty too! Other options?

Serendipity

Syndil wrote: »

A used car would best suit your needs IMO.

True, from a financial perspective, but I have concerns about how the car was driven and whether or not it will be as expected. For example, even a used car warranty doesn't cover the clutch (which is a wear item), and unless you know how the previous owner drove the car, it's difficult to determine how much life is left. Every manual car 'feels' a little different so it's kinda hard to tell. Suddenly that 10-20% saved on the used car becomes a fraction of that when you start having to make repairs to the car. I can do brakes myself, and general maintenance, but the big WHAT IF concerns me.

mhardy6647

The Soul is also very cute! (Not that there is anything wrong with that!)

Falke401

I would do a Honda Fit or Scion XB from what I am reading. Both are cheap, reliable, and get great fuel economy.

heiney9

Serendipity wrote: »

True, from a financial perspective, but I have concerns about how the car was driven and whether or not it will be as expected. For example, even a used car warranty doesn't cover the clutch (which is a wear item), and unless you know how the previous owner drove the car, it's difficult to determine how much life is left. Every manual car 'feels' a little different so it's kinda hard to tell. Suddenly that 10-20% saved on the used car becomes a fraction of that when you start having to make repairs to the car. I can do brakes myself, and general maintenance, but the big WHAT IF concerns me.

Then the security of knowing the car is new will cost you a lot in the first two years becuase of depreciation. The depreciation hit will be substantially more than the costs of a few typical repair or maintenance items on a 2-3 year old car.

Just so you realize by buying a brand new car vs. 2-3 used car you aren't saving anything unless you happen to buy a complete used Lemon.

Any purchase is about managing risk levels, the less perceived risk, the more the initial cost. Your assumption you will save money by purchasing a brand new car simply isn't true in most cases. I will add that if you keep the car a very long time it maybe cheaper.

Also with interest rates so low I would think you could invest the $17K and make the money work harder than using it for a depreciating asset. Not sure paying in cash is best financial move, especially when so many manufacturer's are offering low, low or zero interest loans.

H9

Serendipity

I understand that and completely agree that buying a new car costs more money.

Having said that, we keep all of our cars as long as possible and drive them until the wheels fall off.

Do I really need a brand new car? No, but I'm planning on keeping this one for 300k --> junkyard.