Set speakers small or large?

bansheesho

When I ran the auto setup on the receiver it set my front and center channel speakers to large. I keep hearing people say if you have a sub to set them to small (which I do, crossover @ 80hz)..

What Is the logic behind this..pros and cons of each of the settings -- keep in mind I use it mostly for ht

tonyb

Small is the proper setting.

Here's why I think the receiver keeps wanting to set them to large. When you run the calibration, the mic is registering the sound waves from the tone bursts it sends out at a given SPL. In order to reach a certain spl in your room, it thinks the speakers need to be set to large. Translation.....your speakers may be too small for the size of room you have them in.....or.....where you have the mic during the calibration process is off. The mic should always be in your listening position,ear level, not on the floor, not obstructed. Stacking some books, pillows on the couch where you sit to get it to ear level would help if you haven't done so. A tri-pod would work too but many don't have one laying around. Just a thought anyway.

Falke401

I know with my reciever, my sub will not work unless they are set to small.

Conradicles

Large

pearsall001

Here's a great article on the very subject...http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/articles/128214.html. Play around with the 60/80hz settings & listen to which sounds best. Of course there is no law that says they have to be set to small. Try them set to large vs small & go with what sounds best to you. With a good sub properly set up I'm betting the small setting does it for you. Have some fun & play around.

bansheesho

Ok... That article makes sense, but here is where I am confused.

What is the difference (and or advantages) between setting the speakers to small with a crossover at 80 Hz or setting the speakers to large with a crossover at 80 Hz? Isn't the end result of a crossover at 80 Hz the same?

nhhiep

The thing is they use the term "large" and "small" wrong. it should be "full range" and "not full range". When you set to Large, the AVR sends all the frequency(full range) to that speaker. when you set to small and set the crossover to like 80hz, the AVR only sends 80hz+ to that speaker, anything below 80hz goes to the sub (or other "Large" channels, on some AVRs).

Most speakers out there aren't Large and almost none of the bookshelves. Even with my Rti12 speakers, I cross at 60hz.

Do whatever that you need on your AVR to set the crossover that you want, just ignore the "small, large" thing. it's all about the hz. All AVRs are different, mine even let me cross, even I set to Large

Stilly74

nhhiep wrote: »

The thing is they use the term "large" and "small" wrong. it should be "full range" and "not full range". When you set to Large, the AVR sends all the frequency(full range) to that speaker. when you set to small and set the crossover to like 80hz, the AVR only sends 80hz+ to that speaker, anything below 80hz goes to the sub (or other "Large" channels, on some AVRs).

Most speakers out there aren't Large and almost none of the bookshelves. Even with my Rti12 speakers, I cross at 60hz.

Do whatever that you need on your AVR to set the crossover that you want, just ignore the "small, large" thing. it's all about the hz. All AVRs are different, mine even let me cross, even I set to Large

You set your 12's to cross at 60hz?? You don't like the bass they put out on full band?

bansheesho

So is what you are saying is that small X-over @ 80 will not send under 80 to speaker, just to sub -- while large @ 80 will send everything to speaker plus also send everything under 80 to sub?

nhhiep

Stilly74 wrote: »

You set your 12's to cross at 60hz?? You don't like the bass they put out on full band?

the thing is I have a 1500w Deftech sub and want to take advantage of it. Plus, I want to reserve as much power as possible for my Rti12's mid/high; lower hz will draw way more power from the AMP.

Not that I don't like the bass from the rti12, the thing is for me to "feel" the bass, the vol will be too high. This is where the SuperCube I jumps in. I was about to add some bass shakers, but changed my mind.

bansheesho, yes, that is exactly how my AVR works. yours may be different though.

pearsall001

bansheesho wrote: »

Ok... That article makes sense, but here is where I am confused.

What is the difference (and or advantages) between setting the speakers to small with a crossover at 80 Hz or setting the speakers to large with a crossover at 80 Hz? Isn't the end result of a crossover at 80 Hz the same?

Once you get past the "large" & "small" terminology things become clearer. First off there are very few & I mean very few speakers out there that are actually "full range". The term full range is pretty much meaningless term slung by manufactures. Unless your speakers can hit 20hz at 100db then guess what...they're not close to being full range. The small & large refer to the speakers capabilities & not their physical size. By setting the speakers to small you free up the speaker from trying to perform where it falls short. Let the speakers do what they do best & let the sub handle the rest.

cnh

What they said!

Or you could set your speakers to "stun" and your engines to Warp 5!

M-60s can't really go that low so setting your crossover at 80 won't affect what they put out. Now if you had some Rti-A9s, I'm not sure I'd agree with everyone above. Because they are pretty close to a "full range" speaker. And I would run them close to their full range with some brutish power amps providing "more than enough power to do that", small speaker settings be damned!

cnh

BlueFox

Relatively common question. Try the different settings yourself, and stick with the setting that sounds best in your room, with your gear, to your ear. Hopefully, you are also using your HT setup as an SACD surround sound setup.

I rarely turn my sub on, but even when I do, I have all speakers set to large. I drive the sub off the front pre-outs.

Mudfrog

Good thread.

I just set my speakers up last night and ran Audyssey. It set my Crossover to 70 and all speakers to small. The Onkyo manual says to set speakers larger than 6" to Large. I'm still playing around with it but so far I like the sound of the Center and L/R set to Large. If it's correct I don't know. When setting the Center to large it enabled a feature called "double bass", I did turn that off.

My reason for going with the CS2 / 70's was to get more midbass out of them allowing me to use the Sub less. The Sub irritates the rest of the family, the midbass does not travel throughout the house as easily.

Edit: Just read the link above. Makes sense. I'll play around with the small and large setting some more tonight. I'll also play with the 70 vs 80 crossover as Audyssey set it to 70.

devani

i have 15 set to full range...i use the pre-out to an amp and its golden for me

argylesox

Absolutely a great thread.

Here's something else for the mix: Calibrating Your Audio With An SPL Meter

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=38765

argylesox

One more thing. FOr what it's worth, my AVR manual, NAD T747, includes a NOTE which says: Normally, with speakers set to "Large", the subwoofer is not active. You can set Subwoofer to "On" even with "Large" front speakers, in which case bass content from any channels set to "Small" will be routed to both the subwoofer and to the front speakers; LFE-channel signal will pass only to the subwoofer. In most subwoofer-equipped systems, setting the front speakers to "Small" is usually the better option.

Of course YMMV.

leftwinger57

I spoke to Klipsch about this very issue and for the h/d 5oo set that I have they are set and should be set to small and the xover at 120 .Originally I had it at 80 but reading the minor manual that comes w/ the speakers they clearly say set it 120 because the tech said you do not want the smalls to do the bass heavy lifting.

jbooker82

I run my RTi A7's at full range with no sub for music. For movies I usually run them at 50hz.

You have to remember with movies any big boom or explosion sound effects is going to be in the LFE track any way so your towers wouldnt attempt to play it if they were set at the lowest xo point.

My Onkyo has not small or larger speaker settings. Just cross over points or full range.

Nerd

Good topic, I was confused too and I am more now :-)

The article says that if you have mains set to 60 Hz and surrounds set to 100 Hz, you will lose some frequencies in the set up.

So do we have to set the mains, center and the surrounds at the same crossover frequencies. Thats new to me, cos everywhere I see people here talking of different settings of crossovers for main/center/surrounds

Mudfrog

I watched a movie last night with the speakers set to small. It just felt like my center and fronts were mainly doing highs. I'm sure they were still doing mids but the seem much more apparent when set to large. Crossover is set to 70.

muncybob

There are many articles/opinons out there on this subject. For me, reading them and obtaining a starting point and a basic understanding of what the settings will do was helpful....but as stated, in the end it was whatever settings sounded best to ME and not necessarily what anybody else had to say. The main concern I had was that nothing could be damaged by the settings I chose.

Play around with the various options you may have available to you and find that one that works for you. That's what worked for me

Nerd

Well, the question was more towards the science than settings.

Is there is something lost when we set the CO different in different speakers ?

If no, then that explains people doing their settings at different CO (60 Hz for Main, 80 Hz for center, 100 Hz for surround)

If yes, then is it advisable to use 60 or 80 Hz CO for all speakers

bansheesho

I watched a movie last night with the speakers set to small. It just felt like my center and fronts were mainly doing highs. I'm sure they were still doing mids but the seem much more apparent when set to large. Crossover is set to 70.

.

This is kind of the impression that I get with it, but I will try it out for a while and see.. I mean they say bass is non directional, but I think that is crap... Less directional than other frequencies but still enough to tell that it is coming from a sub off to the side rather than from the speakers themselves.


Idk, I need some benchmarks to test

Mudfrog

bansheesho wrote: »

.

This is kind of the impression that I get with it, but I will try it out for a while and see.. I mean they say bass is non directional, but I think that is crap... Less directional than other frequencies but still enough to tell that it is coming from a sub off to the side rather than from the speakers themselves.


Idk, I need some benchmarks to test

I think it might depend on the frequency. Quite often I think my speakers are putting out some nice bass only to realize it was the sub..

brijenjas

Nerd wrote: »

Well, the question was more towards the science than settings.

Is there is something lost when we set the CO different in different speakers ?

If no, then that explains people doing their settings at different CO (60 Hz for Main, 80 Hz for center, 100 Hz for surround)

If yes, then is it advisable to use 60 or 80 Hz CO for all speakers

If you don't set your crossover lower than your speakers' can reach you shouldn't lose any material, it should just be routed to the Full range (Large) speakers or the sub.

The crossovers for speakers should not be set below your speakers frequency response rating: ie. if you have a surround speaker that has a frequency response of 100Hz-20KHz, you don't want to set the crossover for it at 80Hz.

newbeewannabee

This is a tough topic basically because every room is different and everyone has different sound taste. Since you have Audyssey .. i would highly recommend running the setup per this guide http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/how-to . This will give you a great starting point. Audyssey's web site also recommends setting your front three speakers to small if you have a sub. Listen to what Audyssey has recommended(for awhile)..if it doesn't sound "right" then head to the crossover section. Usually Audyysey sets the fronts way too low if you have a sub...set the front freq's to 80...NEVER SET the crossover freq's lower than what Audyssey recommends. Now the fun part is playing with the different freq's to suit your room and your taste. Refer to the then refer to the Audyssey setup forums https://audyssey.zendesk.com/forums/84181-audyssey-101 then refer back to the Polk forum boards. In other words...nothing is written in stone as every room has its own characteristics and everyone has different taste. HAVE FUN!!

Geoff4rfc

bansheesho wrote: »

.

This is kind of the impression that I get with it, but I will try it out for a while and see.. I mean they say bass is non directional, but I think that is crap... Less directional than other frequencies but still enough to tell that it is coming from a sub off to the side rather than from the speakers themselves.


Idk, I need some benchmarks to test

I'm feeding my speakers with what I feel is an adequate amount of power, 300wpc to the mains, 200wpc to the center and surrounds and what ever my AVR sends to my wides with only 2 channels driven.

None of my speakers are set to full range and all are set at 40hz. I like my sub set at about +5 to +7 and the sound is awesome!!

And, if you close your eyes, you can't tell where the sub is located.

Conradicles

I have tried personally in my room all of the stuff/crap said in this thread and I keep going back to "LARGE" with the sub crossed over at 50Hz.

My AVR never told me he was having a hard time playing the lower Hz. Matter of fact my SDA's said "Give me more Pappa!"

bansheesho

Ok.. here is another question

After you guys set the speakers to small, do you re-equalize? This may be where it is failing for me.. I like the definition of the sound that comes out when the speakers are set to small, but it seems to be a trade off between clarity and experiencing the sound (maybe described as feeling the sound)... It seems that I just end up loosing something like the speakers are just playing upper mids and highs...

Would I benefit from a compromise maybe of setting speakers small but lowering the crossover point to like 70 or 60 Hz with the monitor 60s? I mean the sub is really good at explosions and stuff so I don't want to take away from that

specd_out

Just gonna add my .02 to this thread. Since day one I have always run my speakers as small. Never had an issue sounded good. I figured running my A5's as small would give my elite a break since it wouldnt have to really run the bigger drivers as much. Now that I have my 1.0t power amp I was on the fence of running them as large. That amp has more then enough power to do it so after much much reading on the Maccac owners thread on AVS I decided to do it. I set my fronts as large with my sub and set the sub to "plus". Supposedly it sends full range to the mains and sends LFE and 80hz and below to the sub as well.

I ran the calibration and since then I have run a few Bluray concerts including Adele, Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds, and Billy Joel Last Play at Shea.
The sound is much improved. In the Adele concert seemed very warm and smooth, the bass guitar was pronounced but not over powered. It all flowed very well. I was not able to locate the sub with the lows. It seemed very seemless. Before it was sloppy in comparison. The bass always seemed way to loud for this kinda of concert. I always was aware of when bass notes where played rather then them blending in.
The Dave Matthews concert was just awe inspiring. First off anyone who doesnt have that blu ray needs to get it. The acoustics in that concert are amazing. I love DMB but the Tim Reynolds concert isnt one that I was wanting to get, but I am glad I did. Anyway the sound of the two acoustic guitars was beautiful, having the bass come from the fronts was instantly noticed, The lows of the guitar seems to resonate inside the speakers, It almost like the wood in the cabinet was reacting like the guitar does. It sounded very live, very natural.
The Billy Joel concert was improved as well. The bass was very snappy. I could clearly hear the difference between the bass guitar and the bass drum. I dont remember it being as distinctive before. The piano resonates through my living room very nicely as well. Its not a rumble but a life like resonance.
Overall I was very impressed with the difference. The front sound stage was very pronounced and very forward, in everything I listened to.
I have yet to watch and movies yet, I am slightly worried that movies might not sound as well. Movies have alot more lower frequencies, I hope the A5's dont bottom out.