New to me DCM Time Windows

Mr. Bubbles

I have been a DCM fan for a while but until this weekend have never heard any version of the Time Windows. I picked up this pair at what seemed to be a fair price (current prices for these on E-bay are all over the place from $100 to $400) at $130. Normally i would say plus travel but this time it worked out that my wife and I were taking our girls to an exhibit right down the road from where I met the seller. So the travel worked out as a plus towards the purchase.

Anyway, on to the details. The cabinets are in good shape with the original foam covers in pretty good shape as well with nothing more than tiny pits in the foam. The wood top and bottom plates leave something to be desired with the stains on them. However, even the wood is not chipped or dented, etc. Only bad to the eye but not to the touch. Consecutive serial #'s, all original drivers in great shape, the drivers all have matching factory markings and show no signs of ever being replaced or tampered with. I believe I can sand and re-stain the wood, clean the cabinets and foam well and turn the foams inside out where they are perfect, and have a beautiful pair of Time Windows. In fact I have stain left over from the SRS restoration/ rebuild.

Next, for the very bad points. These look as if they will be horrible to take apart. Everything looks to be glued together. I see no way to easily remove the wood. The speakers even appear to have a good bit of glue around them and even the screw heads on the mid/ bass drivers. The only thing easy to remove on these is the foam covers.

Now the sound; AMAZING, better than any other speaker I own besides maybe the SDA 2A's (At least from the listening I have done so far). Though not the deep, wide sound-stage of any of the SDA's, much better than most other speakers I have heard. Right up there with the open baffle Infinities and 180 degree Mirage's, they seem to fill the room with sound. The full spectrum detail is much better than any of the SDA's (please note that none of mine currently have the RDO's so I can't compare to speakers using those). Less bass than the SDA's but seemingly just as deep. All this with what i assume to be the original crossover components. I am sure recapping and new resistors will improve the sound dramatically, but I want to get some more listening in first. Since these are so hard to dismantle, I want to be ready to restore them completely when they come apart for anything.

Mr. Bubbles

I can find very little information on these or any other DCM model. Does anyone know where I can find any crossover schematics, component details for drivers, crossover components, cabinets, etc.?

BottomFeeder

Nice find!

Tony M

I don't myself but a member here is going to have his redone as we speak. Search this web forum up on the right top.

I have a new to me set of these with the octagon woofers and everything works. These will make a great recording sound great but a poor recording sounds poor. These will show which CD is well recorded or not. I got mine from goodwill for 35.00 and even though the top of one of mine was dented bad on the front, I don't mind that much considering what I paid and the rest of them are great.

The sound is AMAZING isn't it. They're so light too. These remind me of Definitive speakers, BP10's that I also own. 4 6" woofers and 4 tweeters with transmission line cabinet construction produces a great soundfield and sound for sure. If you love these, get your ears on a set of Definitives.

I would consider redoing my time window cross-overs too. They sound this good!

Put your speakers up on 6" stands and you'll really hear a noticeable improvement.

They are special, aren't they..:cheesygrin:

TNHNDYMAN

ScottyBoy is the other CP member that is having the crossovers redone on the pair I picked up for him in Statesville. His are the 3's. Hope you enjoy them. Even though Scott felt his were needing the caps upgraded, I still felt they sounded pretty nice w/ the original caps so I hope the upgrade blows his socks off.

Mr. Bubbles

I will definitely be restoring these and updating the crossovers within a few weeks or so. I want to get some more listening in first as they are so difficult to get apart, I don't think it would be practical to try to open them to determine what is needed for the crossover and then put back together just to wait for the parts and do it all over again. When they built these things they did not intend on taking them apart, (any part of them.)

They do sound amazing and are definitely keepers. I have an older Def tech center, that was designed as a L,C,R. It is a great center. I have never listened to it in any other configuration, but will have to try it sometime. I currently use it with other DCM speakers in the main HT system in the den. Not a perfect voice match but it blends well with the DCM TF-V8.0's as mains and Time Pieces as the rears.

I already own several DCM sets besides the Time Windows and would very much like to find more detailed info on the vintage DCM's, much like is posted in the sticky here for the vintage Polks. It would make crossover mods much easier, and knowing the driver complements of differing models would help in not only getting replacement drivers but also voice matching for HT use.

Any info that anyone may have on this forum or others (or even contact with individuals who know the DCM product) would be greatly appreciated.

Joe08867

If you need to get the drivers out? Unless they are bad i would leave them alone. You need to use a razor and get them separated from the goop they used to seal them to the cab. I helped a buddy with a pair years ago and we got the goop off and used thin foam to seal them instead. It worked just as well and if he needs to get in he can.

This thread can give you a lot of the answers you seek. If you are a member they have some great schematics in this thread for the Time Windows.
DCM Thread

mhardy6647

They are astonishingly good loudspeakers - try them with even a low-powered vacuum tube amp (e.g., push-pull EL84); they're surprisingly sensitive.

My own pair are both butt-ugly... but on the bright side they were only $10 at a charity fleamarket and they sound great- someday I'll spruce 'em up cosmetically.

Mr. Bubbles

mhardy6647 wrote: »

They are astonishingly good loudspeakers - try them with even a low-powered vacuum tube amp (e.g., push-pull EL84); they're surprisingly sensitive.

I don't currently own any tube equipment but have been wanting to try some that may work well with speakers such as these and the vintage Polks. Historically my aversion to tubes, i think has come down to the fidelity of most of the speakers of the earlier tube era equipment. Would you have any recommendations on some good "starter" tube gear?

mhardy6647

I am way too biased (pun not strictly intended) to recommend "starter" tube gear. I am sure others will chime in.

That said, I will give you a generic recommendation :-) or at least a suggestion - it is hard, perhaps impossible, to go wrong with an amplifier using EL84 (6BQ5) output tubes in a class AB, push-pull (PP) configuration. Depending on operating points, you're looking at about 12 to 14 watts per channel (or maybe up to 18 to 20 wpc using the very closely related but more robust 7189 tube). There are many vintage and new production options offering such a configuration - I haven't heard a bad-sounding one yet!

As an aside, I tried my (much beloved) Monitor Series Model 7As with a Dynaco SCA-35 EL84 PP amplifier (a very basic but pretty good sounding piece of hardware) and was quite disappointed by the way it sounded. I've never tried them with any other vacuum tube amplifier, though.

newrival

The end caps are not too difficult to get off. They use glue and pressure dowels. If you use a block and a rubber mallet in small strokes upward around the bottom (with the speakers upside-down), it will come off with no problem. That tar-like goop that is used around the drivers is the sealant and I have found the amount to be highly variable on different units. Some were more gooped up than others, and that stuff is not fun to remove. If you can get to the screws easily enough, remove them first then pry gently and evenly around the frame of the woofer or tweeter and you shouldnt have too much of an issue. I have owned a lot of DCMs and the TWs are one of my favorites. You cannot purchase the original grill cloth anymore because it was found to be highly flammable, but the replacement that was used on the 1a's and up is still available. the originals are the easiest to reupholster because it is just a sheet rapped around and held on the aluminum rails with those rubber channels rather than the "sock" of all the other versions. Even though these are not easy to work on, they're worth it, IMO. DCM made an even bigger erpair challenge called the Macrophone. It was an awesome speaker but getting into it was a real PITA.

Mr. Bubbles

newrival,

Mine do not have aluminum rails or rubber channels. they have a plastic strip that is simply nailed on with tiny finish nails straight into the tube part of the enclosure. I'm not sure if this tells anything about the production of these or not.

mhardy6647

Mine are like yours (one of the strips has been lost to the ages). I believe mine to be the original series Timewindows; I think that yours are, too.
\

Joe08867

I would agree with mhardy on this. I believe they are very early models.

Mr. Bubbles

I have a 1.0T I haven't tried them on yet. I been considering trying it on my SRS's as I am using an Adcom GFA 555II right now and though it sounds good it is kind of sterile sounding. I really like the Marantz sound, but most of the vintage Marantz can't handle the SRS's. The Timewindows aren't nearly the difficult load that the SRS's are so I'd planned on trying them with some of the Marantz gear as well. I would like to try some tube gear but that is something that I know little to nothing about.

bigaltx24

I'm a big fan of the early DCM speakers. I've had a pair of Time Frame 350s for about 6 years and just recently picked up a pair Time Window 1As. Both are very nice sounding speakers, well worth the $90 total I have in both pairs. From what I've understand, DCM used quality components in their crossovers and if the speakers sound good as they are, you are probably doing a lot of work for a very small gain messing with the crossovers.

scottyboy76

avs forums has a thread called, "Whatever happened to Steve Eberbach"

A guy named jamie hauser has actually built some time windows 7s from scratch, as well as rebuilt the 3s, and others there have posted schematics, and their advice on how tos, and sources for materials and such.

These are very enjoyable speaks.

Good luck with yours, BTW, jamie talks about using a hair dryer to loosen the goop to help get it loose to remove drivers and or end caps.

MrGlobe

Those are almost positively TimeWindow 1's. The wood is slightly darker than the 1A, and they do not have the threaded rod running down the center and the nut on the bottom. They also have 2 ports on the front, as opposed the the 1A which has only 1 port on the front. The 1A also has a 'flap' of sorts that covers the top 1/4 or so of the 6.5" driver. Wonderful speakers, the 1A sounds almost indistinguishable from the 1. I will reiterate other's suggestions for giving them some serious powers. I have run then with 35wpc Harman Kardons with good results, but they really show their stuff when you get into the 80+wpc SS arena. I have heard of people running 200+wpc into TW's comfortably.

Probably the biggest thing with the TW is the placement. I have read quite a few different suggestions, and have played around with more positions than I have fingers. I typically start with the speakers directly in front of the listening position in an equilateral triangle with no toe-in or stands. If the speakers need to be further from each other, making them at a wider angle from the listening position, I usually toe them in.

This picture is about how I place them to start, and then experiment depending on room contraints. (Not my picture!)

I posted quite of bit of personal experience with the TW 1/1A in this thread on Anandtech:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2214536&highlight=

Hopefully some of this helps

newrival

I disagree with the statement, "Time Windows really open up with some clean power at least 200wpc," For one, it's designed power rating maxed out at 200W. Secondly, I ran them off a 65W/ch amp (@ 8ohms, so at the 6ohm nominal impedance, essentially 90W) at ear-splitting levels (over 100db) with no clipping. Additionally, I ran them off of several amps with far more power and noticed no discernible difference other than typical sound signatures of the amps. As an aside, just because you use an amplifier rated for a certain amount of "power" (i mean wattage here), that does not mean it is always pumping out that amount all the time. You could hook up a 10,000W amp, and if your speaker is drawing 2W, then your amp puts out 2W. Current and capacitance are far more important numbers in regard to performance, and are likely why you like your Carver amp with them, they just so happen to have high wattage output as well.

The TW's are a 6ohm nominal impedance, and relatively efficient @ 88db/W/m. They are not demanding speakers. My original TWs are set up to a full minimax rig at my friends place and they sound fantastic. The bass could be more controlled with a bigger SS amp, but otherwise it sounds great. Also it gets as loud as any reasonable person may want to listen.

At any rate, enjoy the Time Windows. They're a special speaker.

scottyboy76

Those are def. the originals.
the 1as have that felt "eyelid" over the top drivers, the model 3s go even further, with an anti diffraction lens with felt sandwiched between.

To look at the speaks, even through the felt, you can clearly see what looks like a plus sign instead of the round driver.

Also, the model 3s (pictured below) were the first to use the adjustable pots on the back for customizing the sound to the room.

mhardy6647

newrival wrote: »

...They are not demanding speakers...

At any rate, enjoy the Time Windows. They're a special speaker.

They are not demanding speakers. Indeed.

While I see no downside in feeding them with high quality, high-power amplification... I'll reiterate that they will perform quite well indeed with very modestly powered amplifiers. Quality trumps quantity, in my hardly humble opinion, for these (TW1s).

Joe08867

I have heard these on a 25watt Tube amp and thought they sounded warm and luscious. It all depends on what you want.

High power volume and attack or tubey goodness.

newrival

fastz28 wrote: »

I think they sound best with 200watts and with the ps audio amp i have the best of both worlds quantity and Quality

how often do you think they're drawing a continuous 200W?

scottyboy76

Audiolab of georgia just called, my tw3s are ready, will be picking them up tues. after debs pulmonary dr. appt.

This is gonna be the longest three days since i was 8 years old at xmas.

BTW my adcom gfp750 will be here mon., and i just got damn the torpedoes br,also just got david gilmour remember that night br.

Will soon be gettin the phono pre from starkiller in the wanted section, its an exciting time around here.

P.S. About to order fleetwood mac rumours on br for deb.

David R

I have a pair of the original Time Windows that I don't use if anyone is interested. Los Angeles area.

Tony M

David R wrote: »

I have a pair of the original Time Windows that I don't use if anyone is interested. Los Angeles area.

MOLE......where are you? you've got to hear these speakers if your close.

camp21178

I have a pair of mint condition 1As that I bought in 1984. They have been wonderful speakers. I still have the paperwork. Sensitivity is 89db/watt at one meter. Power requirements are 10 to 200 watts. Frequency response is 25Hz to 18 KHz. It does not list the drop off at the frequency extremes though. I told my son that he could sell them for 150 dollars and keep the money but he begged me to keep them.

Mr. Bubbles

camp21178 wrote: »

I have a pair of mint condition 1As that I bought in 1984. They have been wonderful speakers. I still have the paperwork. Sensitivity is 89db/watt at one meter. Power requirements are 10 to 200 watts. Frequency response is 25Hz to 18 KHz. It does not list the drop off at the frequency extremes though. I told my son that he could sell them for 150 dollars and keep the money but he begged me to keep them.

If you're selling those where are you located?

camp21178

Sorry, I'm in Wisconsin. My son won't let me sell them anyway.

Soverign

Mr. Bubbles wrote: »

I will definitely be restoring these and updating the crossovers within a few weeks or so. I want to get some more listening in first as they are so difficult to get apart, I don't think it would be practical to try to open them to determine what is needed for the crossover and then put back together just to wait for the parts and do it all over again. When they built these things they did not intend on taking them apart, (any part of them.)

They do sound amazing and are definitely keepers. I have an older Def tech center, that was designed as a L,C,R. It is a great center. I have never listened to it in any other configuration, but will have to try it sometime. I currently use it with other DCM speakers in the main HT system in the den. Not a perfect voice match but it blends well with the DCM TF-V8.0's as mains and Time Pieces as the rears.

I already own several DCM sets besides the Time Windows and would very much like to find more detailed info on the vintage DCM's, much like is posted in the sticky here for the vintage Polks. It would make crossover mods much easier, and knowing the driver complements of differing models would help in not only getting replacement drivers but also voice matching for HT use.

Any info that anyone may have on this forum or others (or even contact with individuals who know the DCM product) would be greatly appreciated.

Hello there! If you go to craigslist oregon, and look in eugene ads, there is an guy there who has several pairs of the original DCM's, when steve eurback, or aurbach or something like this, he is the man who engineered these, before the company got sold to a cookie cutter company, like MTM or something....But, he knows quite a bit of them, so look him up, his phone is posted on the ads.....Hope that sheds some light for you

michigannick

Mr. Bubbles wrote: »

I can find very little information on these or any other DCM model. Does anyone know where I can find any crossover schematics, component details for drivers, crossover components, cabinets, etc.?

I have the schematics for the 1 and the 1a. Am a recent fan to both Polk sda and the dcm's 2 pair of timewindows and 2 other dcms (tf250 and cx-27s) all have really impressed me. My main systes are Ads1290s and these sda's and dcm's really do it for me as well. Send me a message and I can forward you the schematics .... now I need to figure out how to make an interconnected for my sda 2b's hmmmm