SR5250 woofer in a-pillar

Vital

SO let's assume I want to use SR5250's woofer in an active 3-way setup as a midrange speaker in addition to full set of SR6500. Basically letting 6500 be a dedicated midbass in my doors and free up some of the lower frequencies my SR tweeter currently plays (as of now it' crossed at around 4K Hz)

I've had this woofer before, I know it is very detailed and plays midrange frequencies just right but I only had it inside my doors (where 6500 is now) so I'm not sure how it'll behave inside A-pillar (with fiberglass work offcourse)

Should I built a sealed enclosure for it? Or leave it as is which means kind of a "free-air" but a LOT less space then in the doors?

I have more questions regarding this set-up but let's stay on this for now. Processing will be done by hopefully Arc Audio SP8 given they will not charge an arm and a leg for it when it comes out.
Not sure on exact frequencies I'd like it to produce just yet but will start somewhere in 300/500Hz range unless I'll need to go lower.

Vital

Anyone?

MacLeod

This is weird. I typed up a post on this a couple days ago. I bet I hit the Go Advanced tab instead of Submit. Figures. Well I'm at work now on my phone so this will be a shorter version.

Basically it ain't gonna work. You'll need to build a big **** sealed enclosure to house the 5 and you wont have the room. You could vent down into the kick panel possibly and go with a smaller enclosure but its still going to be a pain.

Honestly dude, you've got one of the best cars on the market for sound quality. I have SERIOUSLY considered getting one and here is what I would do. Keep your 6's in the doors and tweets in the pillars (assuming that's where they're at now) and cut into the sheet metal in the kick panel and put something like a Scanspeak 4" mid in there then cut out a section of the trim panels and put a grill there and you're done. One of the best sounding cars I've ever heard is Andy Jones' Altima that was set up like this. He eventually went with mids up in the dash but I never thought it sounded as good as when they were in the kick panels.

I'm not a big fan of mids in the dash area unless you have a big open dash area like my Edge. In a car, that area is just too small and the sound always seems "small" to me. I've always preferred mids in the kicks. Better pathlengths and a lot less reflection.

If I buy an Altima, 4's in the kick panels is what Ill do. If you don't want to cut any sheet metel you can use a set of Morel CDM88 dome mids like I'm running. You can cut a 3" hole in the trim panel and mount them there. I'd still prefer the 4" route though.

arun1963

Deja Vu??? I would not do more than a 4" in pillars. 5.25's have been done in the dash . But that requires cutting the dash. However if you're bent on going this way then yes you can do it but you'd a need a largish enclosure, about 1.25 x Vas, or about 0.3cuft. Maybe something like this?

Vital

I'm not bend on doing it but I do have sr5250's woofers in addition to a full set of 6500 so figured they would be a perfect match when it comes to sound (in a perfect world there is)

You think getting something like 3'' Hertz or Hybrid Audio would be a better choice for a-pillar?

One thing I feel like I am bent on is A-pillar as a location, I just don't see me liking any speakers in kicks below my midbass...

MacLeod

Dude they've been winning sq competitions with kick mounted mids for 2 decades. Dash mounted speakers don't always work and never work without a lot of processing power. You've got speakers much closer to you with a big sheet of reflective glass right behind them not to mention that the dash and windshield combine to be the shape of a big horn.

With the mids in the kicks you've got lots of soft carpet all around and you've got much better pathlenghts not to mention not having a speaker right in your face.

Trust me dude, mids on the kicks is the better way to go in almost all situations unless you have a lot of processing and can build the proper enclosure and such which ain't easy. It works on my Edge cause I'm using the Morel domes which don't require an enclosure and my dash area is huge and flat.

Another idea is to try some Q Logic kick panels. You can mount your 5's there. A lot of people knock Q-Forms but they look totally stock, fit really well and work really good. Buy a Dynamat Wedge Pack (4 ft2) and that'll be enough to put 2 layers on the backside of them and that'll firm them up pretty well.

arun1963

^^ Anything mounted near glass / dash is going to cause a ton of problems. Reflections, lobing, loading you're going to have your hands full. I just have my tweets on the dash and the near one is a pita to manage even with a processor. You're much better off going with Macs suggestion.

If you're doing a 3 way, the typical frequency range your 5250 play will be sensitive to both phase (arrival times) and axis response. The lower you mount the speakers, the lesser the path length difference and hence better arrival times. It also gives you the flexibility of angling your speakers appropriately. Run the 5250 in the kicks from about 300-4/5khz and then let your pillar mounted tweets take over.

Vital

What about stage height? I was under impression that height cues start at lower midrange frequencies, no?

MacLeod

Not really. The only things that will image where the lower midrange stuff is would be instruments that only have lower mid frequencies like the low end notes of a stand up bass. Almost all instruments and such will have higher frequency characteristics and so you can get them to image up high by havings the tweeters heard last because your brain cues in on the last thing it hears. So your brain would hear the lower end of a female voice then hear the high end stuff would be heard a split second after and that's where your brain will tell you the sound is coming from.

You can lose a little height by keeping the mids in he kicks but the overall tonality will be better. And with a little work, you can get very nice imaging and height with just the tweeters in the dash.

pentoncm

Its not just about where the fundamental notes are. Each instrument has harmonics that extend much higher. You'd be surprised how much the 6.3 to 10kHz region affects hard rock guitar. You can have some pretty low end stuff that images really high because of the harmonics. Cello images up on top of my dash and and its fundamentals only reach up to 500Hz but the harmonics can go up to 7 or 8 kHz.

My tweeters are right next to my woofers and pointed up and towards the opposing side B pillar and I have great stage height.

jay27

Would this location work for the SR5250? It's a newer model Civic.

Or would the same issues still exist?

By the way, if you do put a small midrange in the location Andy Jones did (further forward), is that ideal or would it be the same to install it anywhere near the midbass in the door?