Anyone know about LTV University speaker company?

Dabutcher
Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
edited February 2012 in Vintage Speakers
Attachment not found.Just returned from an estate sale with three pairs of vintage home made speakers. Could not tell what raw speakers or crossovers were used before I purchased. Paid fifty-five for the six beautiful cabinets. After I got home I unscrewed the back of one of the biggest pair and inside were two crossovers than looked like big square batteries and they had. Sphericon super Tweeters T-202. And Diffusicone 12 , series two ,twelve inch speakers.any thoughts on quality or sound of these ?
MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2012
    Yup: LTV (Ling-Temco-Vought - a conglomerate who once made aircraft) bought University Sound (from White Plains NY). At some point, University and Electrovoice were merged - not sure under whose ownership. Today both brands belong to Telex. Fortunately for us, Telex maintains an excellent free on-line resource of documentation.

    http://archives.telex.com/

    The Sphericon tweeters are pretty good. The Diffusicone 12 is a reasonable extended-range driver. Should sound OK and be quite sensitive; "great for tube amps".

    The best on-line resource for vintage University consumer drivers and speakers (pre-LTV, but it will still be helpful to you) is
    www.hifilit.com
    specifically, http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/University/University.htm

    Finally, you can also find info on University drivers and speaker systems in late 1950s through early 1960s Radio Shack general catalogs! Scans are available on line at www.radioshackcatalogs.com (another wonderful resource)

    EDIT: For example, take a look at pages 52 through 54 of http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1961/
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    The twelves wire to one crossover and to one terminal wire set and tweeters go through another crossover and another set of terminals. I tried these speakers w my 100 watt Optimus and hooked tweets to A set and twelves to B terminals.turned on and tested w tuner radio.. pops the overload w both onn or A on and B off or visa versa? I hooked up the smalled set of speakers and they sound great. Any ideas? does this mean the two crossovers in both big speakers are bad? as always thanks for all your help.. Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    Optimus integrated amp pops of in 10 seconds .. play music til pops to safe mode.. Yamaha integrated reciever does the same thing? A speakers or B speakers or AB speakers does the same after 5-10 seconds? do I need to hook up a dedicated amp w more power/ I have a few extra amps laying around but do not want to wreak them. thanks,Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,603
    edited February 2012
    I predict someday soon instead of Googling speakers brands. We will be "Hardying" them! The Hardy search engine!:cheesygrin:
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2012
    I'll take that as a compliment :-) You should see my basement sometime - no, actually, you shouldn't! :-P

    The speakers do not need high power; the symptom sounds like something is shorted - I cannot understand the hookup of the crossovers and the drivers (I may just not be reading carefully enough). Do you have a VOM or a DMM? If so, you can read the DC resistance across the speaker inputs and/or any of the individual drivers. It shouldn't be zero, or very low. In the absence of a meter... I'd take a "divide and conquer" approach myself. Bypass the crossovers and the other drivers and just run the woofers on your amp or receiver - see if they work. Then slowly add back components 'til it doesn't work. I wonder if everything is hooked up correctly?
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    If you look at the blown up picture of rear of inside speaker ..Two wires go from tweet adn go to crossover to two terminals on outside.. Two wires go from 12 inch to another crossover to two terminals outside. I have a multimeter and will test speakers and try your ideas. Thanks Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2012
    That's quite weird - judging (only) by the number of terminals on each of the crossovers, it looks like one should suffice for both drivers (i.e., wired as normal inside a two-way loudspeaker). I would also check all the wires, particularly down at those crossovers, and make sure there are no shorts across terminals. Even one strand out of place from a multi-strand speaker cable could cause a short that would be detected by a modern amplifier and perhaps shut it down.
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,603
    edited February 2012
    Mark, rest assure that was a compliment! I always enjoy reading your posts, here and at AK.
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • Mr. Bubbles
    Mr. Bubbles Posts: 736
    edited February 2012
    I know very little about "tube" equipment design but would suspect that these are from that era. I have a set of 8 inch drivers that look very similar to the 12's in your cabinets that someone had retrofitted to a pair of Jensen 6 cabinets.

    After looking closely at the pics, the two boxes look more like some type of transformer to me and not a crossover. The 12 inch appears to be a full range driver of sorts and would not need a crossover. The tweeter being added to extend the high end where the 12's roll off naturally.

    The design looks to have 2 wires connected to the back of the tweeter but 3 wires coming out and going to the terminals you describe on the side of the cabinet. This makes me very curious as to what's inside the back cover of the tweeter. Is that cover removable? Do both cabinets have the boxes inside or just one. My curiosity leans towards the side connectors going to the other cabinet (assuming there are other standard looking connectors for the speaker wire inputs.)

    As I said i do not know much about equipment from that era but just thought I would (think out loud) actually typing) just in case it would help.
    If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of Progress?!


    Monitor 5Jr, Monitor 5, RTA12, RTA 15TL, SDA 2A, 1c, SRS 2, 1.2TL, CRS, Atrium.
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    The side of each cabinet has a dial for turning up something. Made by University.
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2012
    The boxes are potted crossovers; very common in the era (late-1950s/early 1960s). The two knobs should be L-pads for adjusting (typically) MR and HF levels. They should be connected to the crossovers or to the drivers (with three wires).
    The "Diffusicone" 12" is indeed a full range (or more properly, an extended range) driver.

    Wish I could get an up close and personal look at the speaker! :-P
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    A pair just sold on Ebay w lots of pictures. I will post close ups tonight. Thanks. D
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    I hooked up woofers seperately and they both play without kicking overload .one tweeter does not kick it off and the other one kicks it off. These tweeters go with the brilliance dials on exterier. Then they wire to the adjustable crossover. So i would guess it is one of the two things that is bad or a wire is shorting from that connection. Is there any way the smaller speakers are for midrange only? Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.They each hold only one speaker. A smaller version of the twelve and an adjustable crossover. As always, thanks, Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2012
    * are the terminals on the XOs (crossovers) labeled? If not labeled on the top, there might (??) be a schematic on the bottom.
    * what's up with that blue wire on the "N2A" crossover? It looks like it is jumpering two contacts on the XO?
    * I am guessing the three wires exiting the Sphericon tweeter go to an L-pad ("Brilliance" control)?
    * The smaller speakers could be used for midrange or as full range speakers - which crossover do they have? When you say "smaller version of the 12"... is it a Diffusicone 8?

    1957-4.jpg
    http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/University/1957-4.jpg

    EDIT Haven't found the "N2" XOs on the Telex archive yet, but there is info on an "N1" XO:
    http://archives.telex.com/archives/University%20Sound/Miscellaneus%20Electronics/N-1%20EDS.pdf

    info on Diffusicone-8 on page 47 and N-2A and B XOs and T-202 tweeter on page 53 of http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1961/
    (in case you didn't see these already)

    The present pair (quad?) of speakers are - interesting... I think I'd definitely recommend stripping 'em down and re-combining the pieces in a more normal configuration.
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    Attachment not found.Three wires coming out the bottom of the tweeter do go to" brilliance" knob. Smaller speakers are 8 inch diffusicones . no crossover and inside cabinets are full of insulation...."fiberglass" ? big speakers w two XO's left white wires from left XO go to top speaker wire terminals and right bottom white wires go to bottom speaker wire terminals...grey wires go to tweets and brown wires to twelves...thanks,DAttachment not found.arryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    Can I run these with jumpers between speaker wire terminals like I have on my RTi's? Also if I drew you a schematic of screws on top of both crossovers would you help me to rewire configuration? Thank you. Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited February 2012
    They look like they are wired right. My guess is the tweeter adjuster is shot. It might have a fault in it which your integrated is seeing as a ground and popping.

    Unplug the tweeter from the brilliance knob if you can and ty it again.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2012
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    They look like they are wired right. My guess is the tweeter adjuster is shot. It might have a fault in it which your integrated is seeing as a ground and popping.

    Unplug the tweeter from the brilliance knob if you can and ty it again.

    Good advice!

    I am really curious about the XO wiring. Note from the R/S catalogs that they XOs provide multiple XO options (which, of course, will also differ depending upon load impedance) - we need to find out the ID of those 8 terminals, though.

    Pretty cool speakers and well worth some sweat equity!

    The "Sphericon" tweeters are held in no mean esteem by the cadre of nutso/Luddite vintage speaker buffs (ahem, myself included).
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    So you say these tweeters are not on your {Good} list? I tried to disconnect brilliance knob from tweeter. No go without cutting wires. So I wiggled dial back and forth in case it was just corroded to make it short. Solved the problem and seems to be fixed? Now I need to know if I can connect one set of speaker wires to both sets of terminals? I am trying to figure out how to hook the two sets of speakers up in two channel mode? I have no use for these speakers. Wife says two 5.1 set ups are enough in the house and my two EV sentry II's are great in garage set up.. I was just wondering what I should ask for them on CL or Ebay? I could list them on Polk here with no sales rating? I have bought two amps from Polkies here that could probly vouch somewhat for me? thanks,Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2012
    "no mean esteem" means that the esteem in which they're held is not mean (average) - they're quite highly though of! :-)
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    Any idea what price I should offer these for sale? Also can I bridge both speaker terminals on back of speaker together like on my RTi12's ? Thanks for all your help guys. Your the best!
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited February 2012
    Those tweeters are very good. They are not nearly as hooty as horns and pretty dang smooth for the time.

    I would think that they would be an 8ohm speaker if you bridged the terminals and ran them together. I believe the woofer and tweeter are 16ohms each.
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    Tweeter still pops breaker. Put back of cabinet back together for test run? Maybe some wires got together or cracked or something from terminal wires moving on install? Thanks. D
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    I think I will take the advice of testing speakers separately . If they all work then maybe these need to be rewired with new wire? Thank you all for the help.. Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    Tested all speakers directly and they work fine w no pop of breaker. Put them back together and just hooked up the bottom terminals and they both work fine. I do not know what will be added by hooking up top terminals? Thanks. Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    I feel like a genius now! Top terminals are to hook up the smaller speakers to big ones through the other XO. When I bought them at the estate sale they were not hooked up so it was a guessing game what was inside or how they sounded. My only clue was smaller ones were sitting on top of larger ones and smaller ones had no XO inside cabinets. Thanks. Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2012
    Sounds good; feels good to troubleshoot, doesn't it?
    ...
    Just so you know you're not just 'talking' to yourself ;-)
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2012
    Thank you sir for all your help. They sound great! Now I need to get the wife to let me keep them. Darryl
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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