questions

Jasonloose

i was thinking of getting the rtia9 or rtia7. Is it worth spending an extra 500 bucks for the rtia9's? is that to much? i have heard really good things about the rtia7's. I have the Denon 1912 receiver a polk psw505 sub, and just got the tsi400 for the front but i want better ones so im going to move those to the back when i decide between the RTI 7 or 9. i also have the bookshelf rti 1 for the middle and just ordered the csi a6 center channel. Also if i got the RTi 7 or 9 would i be putting out enough watts to all the speakers to make it sound amazing? Just a bunch of questions if anyone could help i would really appreciate it

tonyb

If your going to keep that receiver, stay with the A7's, even with that I'd still say your on the light side of power for 7 channel surround,but still doable.

In 5 channel mode your at around 85 watts per channel
In 7 channel mode your dropping to 63 watts per channel

Try to keep the volume below concert levels and you'll be good.

thesurfer

With all that, sounds nothing more than overkill to me,

Geoff4rfc

The TSi400 is equivalent to the Monitor60, going with either the A7 or A9 will be a huge improvement. Those big speakers like power, if you can implement an amp, you'll be doing your speakers and your ears a great service. I don't know anything about your AVR, but if it has pre-outs, then you're set to add an amp. Since you're also getting the A6, a three to five channel amp would be a bonus.

chumlie

If you plan on useing the Dennon i would recomend takeing the tsi400's out and useing them elsewhere. Get the rti a7's and csi a6 for your front and use the rti a1's for the rear in a 5.1 setup. No preouts on your receiver, so you can't add an amp.

Jasonloose

thats all the watts that this receiver putts out? i thought it was an 875 watt receiver that would be 1125 per channel. why would it only put out that little of power to them? That confuses me.

concealer404

It's 90 watts per channel rms assuming only 2 channels driven. That number decreases as you add more channels, since they're all drawing from the same source.

Ratings also potentially inflated, stating peak watts, higher distortion than you'd want to hear, etc etc etc. Wonderful world of marketing.

Geoff4rfc

^^^^^^ Exactly!!! Total propaganda, all the companies do it. I too was led astray on what my AVR was juicing.

As concealer says, the rating of an AVR is with two channels driven. I've seen too many adds where it says 100watts X 7 or what ever the rating of that particular unit is always X 7, or 5. No sir, it's just not true.

If you can find a test bench of your AVR, it'll show just how much power it puts out with how many channels driven.

Jasonloose

So is there even enough power going to my tsi 400 ? and my other speakers with this receiver? And so you would recommend not even bothering to bet the upgrade to the rti a7 then ? and are those decent or were those a waste of money ?

tonyb

http://www.hometheater.com/content/denon-avr-2311ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Thats for the 2311, your receiver is even less.

Your receiver is fine for TSI-Monitor series and probably the lower end of the RTI series, also depends on what you want to do,5 channel or 7 surround.

pyrocyborg

Even some AVR are rated with 1 only one channel running... with high distorsion.

As for the power, note that most of the time, except if you're going over 90 dB, there is little less than 10 watts used per channel. At confortable listening level (no ear bleeding), on mid-sensivity speakers, you're using something like 1 w.

However, to go to, let's say 100 dB, you'll need 80 or 100 real watts per channel.

So, your receiver is fine, depending on the volume level you like, your room size, etc. As for the RTiA9, they really need a good amp/receiver to really shine: the RTia7 are a better bet if you're not using an external amp, and as long as you don't crank it up and that you're only using 2 towers, you'll be fine (don't use towers as surround, it'll take a lot of juice and tax your front speakers performances).

Jasonloose

so whats a great receiver that will push out enough watts consistently to make it sound amazing. im not looking to get a new one but it would be helpful for later purchase

thank you for all the information it is really helpful.

Pyrocyborg
Would you think it would be worth it for what i have to get the RTia7's when im running 7.1 or should i just stick with the tsi400. would there be a huge difference?
I was told the tsi 400 would be fine if i had a good sub which i was told the one i have the psw505 is a good one.
is that true or do the RTia7 sound that much better or do they just have more base to them

tonyb

RTIA7's are in a different league than the TSI's, so yes, a good improvement, it might help some if you ran a 5.1 set up with that avr instead of 7.1. You could still run the 7's from that avr, just be carefull at higher volumes is all we are saying.

jbooker82

The thing is if you go with RTI A7's your stepping up to a better speaker model. I would get the 7's and see how they sound, if your happy then stick with them. If your not start looking for a new reciever, perferably one with pre outs. If you had gotten a reciever with pre outs the first time then you could be looking at external amps right now.


It sucks that all avr's dont come with Amplifier Pre outs. When I bought my Onkyo I had 100% no intension of buying an amplifer. The thought never even crosssed my mind. I was just chasing power numbers and bought a pretty desent avr. I am just glad my chase lead me far enough up the Onkyo food chain that my reciever had amplifer pre outs.

By the looks of your current system and speakers purchased you have a whole RTI A speaker setup other than the front towers. I would sell the TSI400's buy the RTI A7's and run a 5.1 system.

Later one if you ablsolutly want a 7.1 system you could get the FXI A4's or A6's for side surrounds, then move your RTI A1's to the rear.

tonyb

jbooker82 wrote: »

It sucks that all avr's dont come with Amplifier Pre outs. When I bought my Onkyo I had 100% no intension of buying an amplifer. The thought never even crosssed my mind. I was just chasing power numbers and bought a pretty desent avr. I am just glad my chase lead me far enough up the Onkyo food chain that my reciever had amplifer pre outs.

An ounce of prevention is worth that pound of cure. Betcha that amp is making those modded 7's sing.

pyrocyborg

Jasonloose wrote: »

Pyrocyborg
Would you think it would be worth it for what i have to get the RTia7's when im running 7.1 or should i just stick with the tsi400. would there be a huge difference?
I was told the tsi 400 would be fine if i had a good sub which i was told the one i have the psw505 is a good one.
is that true or do the RTia7 sound that much better or do they just have more base to them

IMO, when you step up to a different series, it's almost always better, depending on your criterias. For example, I consider a LSi7 pair of bookshelf better than a pair of RTi towers, but as I'm mostly into music in a restricted area, it fits my bill. Why? A more musical sound, better tweeters, drivers and cabinet look better... well, at least that's what people told me :P.

However, sure there is a lot less bass from a pair of bookshelf, but what I wanted to say is that each time you step up or down a certain series (whatever the brand), you're up to a different sound. You might like the RTi sound, and find LSi way too "laid back" to your taste while the LSi are almost twice the price of the RTi!

There is some people out there who might recommand this to people : when you can want to buy towers of a certain brand, step up to a pair of bookshelf of the higher series (considering you have an adequate amp to drive them if they are 4 ohms rated speakers for example), as you'll most probably end up with better sound for the same price or less. However, it doesn't take in consideration that towers have a fuller sound, fill a room more easily than their bookshelf counterpart, and that they might not need a sub. So, it all come down to taste and room disposition (aka needs)!

If you swear only by towers, I want you to listen to a pair of RTiA7, see if you like them. If you do, you could try them with your system. Sure, they can take 100w more than your current TSi400, but it doesn't mean your amp will suffer to drive them. It might make them sing a lot better than what you could expect, as long as you keep the volume down to respectable level.

To give you an idea, I personnally didn't like the sound of the Monitor series towers (the old "TSi" line) when I compared it to RTi (old RTiA) for about 20% more bucks. I mean, the sound "signature" is different. Monitor isn't what I would qualify as crappy sounding, but I prefered my RTi, even if they were bookshelf/sub combo and that I could get entry level towers for the same price.

A lot of people won't agree with me, but I'm towards quality vs quantity, I'm in a small room (I am maybe at 8 or 9 feet from my speakers), AND I listen to my music at fairly low volume level... so
I prefer bookshelf speakers as they offer me exactly the kind of performance I need for a fairly lower price when compared to their towers counterpart.

I also Think that it's better to have an "excellent" 5.1 rig than a "good" 7.1 because you had to cheap out on some speakers to fit your budget... Hell, I even think that a 3.1 comprised of 1500$ worth of speakers is better than a 1500$ 5.1 ... but there again, I'm biased over a good front stage I guess.

tonyb

pyrocyborg wrote: »

... but there again, I'm biased over a good front stage I guess.

As well you should be, it's the anchor for the whole shebang.

gudnoyez

I was at Best Buy the other day and seen the Denon 1912 it say's 125 Wpc on the side of the box but at 6 ohms it is only 90 Wpc at 8 ohms it is decieving, sad thing is most of the guys that work there would not know the difference anyways. Sell your tsi's get some A5's and A1's or A3's

gp4jesus

to P'Borg: "I also Think that it's better to have an "excellent" 5.1 rig than a "good" 7.1 because you ha[ve] to cheap out on some speakers (or other other equipment) to fit your budget... " ++1

BTW: the RT in the model RTi/RTi A series stands for Reference Theatre. The "A" represents "the improved" RTi. Polk took their cue from the military.

For example. the first in the series of tanks called the M1 Abrams came w/a 105mm main gun. Later, the "M1 A1" Abrams had some major techno improvements as did the "A2"; either the A1 or A2 came w/a 120mm gun. If we wait long enough, someone will chime in w/the correct info on that.

Back to audio. I've posted this before but it bears repeating.
No heat seeking missiles for what follows, please.Here's where I "slap the hornet's nest." A little known ('A7) fact Polk left off the web site: below the sub's XO frequency (125Hz) nominal impedance* drops to 4 ohms*. You read that right, now read why. NO HP filtering to the Mid - the mid & subs are in parallel* below 125hz.
*jbooker82, VR3 (Trey), & 1-2 others know all this first hand

Shalom