Been awhile. Thinking about upgrade. Amp recommendations?

concealer404

I haven't spent a DIME on my setup in over a year, and it's been nice, i have to admit.

However, it's amazing how quickly "the bug" returns just be reading a couple threads here.

Current setup:

B&K Reference 5 SII
Onkyo M5150
Pioneer BDP-51FD
Some power conditioner of some sort (shows how much i've been paying attention to the gear, huh?)
Yaqin CD-2 with some sort of better tubes, don't remember what they are either... Mullards maybe?
Audioquest Cables throughout. They're..... red. Not the Sidewinders, some Audio Advisor special dealie.
Paradigm Legend V.3s

I'm guessing there's two things that would make the biggest improvement in my setup. Keep in mind that i use this setup for EVERYTHING. TV, Playstation 3, Music, streaming Pandora, watching movies. I'd like to see an improvement across everything.

I'm guessing:

1) Amp
2) DAC

I'm focusing on amp unless someone tells me otherwise.

Assuming budget of ~$300 (Low, i know... but i've got a race car to finish), what should i be looking at? Been looking at B&K, but don't know which model i want. I'm thinking either B&K, or something with VU meters. (Because i love VU meters.)

Lay it on me.


I almost pulled the trigger on that Jolida tubed DAC on Audiogon, then did my research and found out that thing was a crap shoot, and nobody liked the seller. Glad i researched.

Joe08867

If I can be honest? Don't worry about VU meters and get as much as you can for 300. B&K is a personal favorite, Rotel would also be a good choice.

concealer404

Joe08867 wrote: »

If I can be honest? Don't worry about VU meters and get as much as you can for 300. B&K is a personal favorite, Rotel would also be a good choice.

I'm not worried about it, per se... Just that if i can't budget a B&K worth getting, i'll probably chase an Oinker Integra or something.

I may have worded that wrong... i wouldn't buy an amp based purely on the fact that it had VU meters. (... or would i?)

Which B&K would you recommend around my budget? Would prefer a non-captive powercord, and bonus points if the power light is blue to match my B&K Preamp. If i can mod it easily to get rid of the red, that's ok, too. (Man, i sound like i only care about aesthetics.)

cstmar01

Ben, buy my adcom. You've heard it before and know what its like :cheesygrin:

concealer404

cstmar01 wrote: »

Ben, buy my adcom. You've heard it before and know what its like :cheesygrin:

PM me your number fool! We have much to talk about! :cheesygrin:

Your adcom was marked sold, btw.

Oh, and it doesn't really fit in my rack.

heiney9

Amp, then pre-amp, then dac.

In fact I'd almost recommend a better pre-amp first, but it's a toss up between that and the amp.

Problem is there isn't much better out there for $300.

H9

concealer404

heiney9 wrote: »

Amp, then pre-amp, then dac.

In fact I'd almost recommend a better pre-amp first, but it's a toss up between that and the amp.

Problem is there isn't much better out there for $300.

H9

Preamp, really? I was actually considering that the strongest point of my setup, save maybe for the speakers....

I'm willing to stretch budget a little bit, i just have to make sure i've still got enough to comfortably afford the $2500 ECU for the car i have to buy in March. :eek:

You don't think there's any B&Ks in that price range that would be an improvement over the old entry level Oinker?

heiney9

Actually the pre probably matches the rest of your system.

I think something like this would actually benefit you more if your budget is $300.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KECES-DA-131-Mk3-SPDIF-DAC-New-Version-Lower-Price-/160720513875?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256bb06b53

I know the shipping is a deal killer because that puts you over your budget by almost $100.

H9

halo71

concealer404 wrote: »

i'll probably chase an Oinker Integra or something.

Integra M504 in your range with large meters. Just sayin'.....

steveinaz

Since your system is used over a variety of sources, and you mentioned you'd like to see an improvement "across everything", I'd recommend a multi-input DAC, BUT with a $300 budget, you'll have to go used to get anything worthwhile.

concealer404

steveinaz wrote: »

Since your system is used over a variety of sources, and you mentioned you'd like to see an improvement "across everything", I'd recommend a multi-input DAC, BUT with a $300 budget, you'll have to go used to get anything worthwhile.

Oh... i should have clarified. I tend to only buy used. Pretty sure the only new piece in my entire setup is the Yaqin.

I'd need 3 inputs i think. The CDP, Cable box (has optical out), and the PS3. (i think this has optical... iono)

So you're in the camp that thinks a DAC is a better move at this point? Suggestions?

concealer404

halo71 wrote: »

Integra M504 in your range with large meters. Just sayin'.....

Definitely crossed my mind!

steveinaz

For now, yes a multi-input DAC. Just my 2 cents, and what I would do if your system were mine. The amp would be next. The only reason I don't say "amp" now--is $300, even in the used market, is going to be a move sideways.

Keep in mind, most modern multi-input DAC's are also preamp capable *wink* *wink*

Grace
Benchmark
New Dacmagic +

I'm sure there are many more.

concealer404

steveinaz wrote: »

For now, yes a multi-input DAC. Just my 2 cents, and what I would do if your system were mine. The amp would be next. The only reason I don't say "amp" now--is $300, even in the used market, is going to be a move sideways.

Hrmmm... i knew the M5150 outperformed... but didn't know it was good enough @ $75 to make a $300-$400 used amp a sideways move.

Alrighty then... what DACs am i looking at?

heiney9

steveinaz wrote: »

For now, yes a multi-input DAC. Just my 2 cents, and what I would do if your system were mine. The amp would be next. The only reason I don't say "amp" now--is $300, even in the used market, is going to be a move sideways.

Yep, same with the pre-amp. That's why I recommended a dac.

or

Save more money to make more of a jump.

H9

steveinaz

If you can stretch to $500 used, then their are some good amplifier choices available that would be worth your trouble.

The reason I'm hot 'n heavy on the DAC, is that you'll likely never need to upgrade later---where you'll likely want to upgrade a $400 amp later. (remember, I'm a cheap ****).

Imagine you have 5 empty glasses and a pitcher of water. You have 2 choices; either fill each one partially, or fill one of them completely---knowing likely down the road you will get another pitcher of water, and only have to decide between 4 glasses...

Ya feelin' me hoss?

concealer404

I feel ya, boss!

Lay it on me! 3-input DACs annnnnndddd..... GO!

Bonus points for USB input as well, just in case i get super nerdy and want to try a Squeezebawks.

steveinaz

There's many out there (as popularity grows) that are multi-input, and have a preamp "mode." I don't wanna be a fan boy, so I'll let you get your search on.

concealer404

steveinaz wrote: »

There's many out there (as popularity grows) that are multi-input, and have a preamp "mode." I don't wanna be a fan boy, so I'll let you get your search on.

/me heads to Emotiva website.

steveinaz

Here's all used DAC's, between $100-$500:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings?search_text=&page=1&no_listing_types_auctions=false&no_listing_types_classifieds=false&items_per_page=50&listing_types_auctions=1&listing_types_classifieds=1&order_by=&filter_category_id=37&min_condition=1&max_condition=11&price_range=3

concealer404

Heh, i was joking, you don't have to full-on spoon feed me. I actually looked through those yesterday night, which is how i arrived to almost pulling the trigger on the Tubed Jolida thing. Haven't seen any more recent reviews on it since the whole rash of bad units fiasco, and the general state of that company makes me leery.

steveinaz

It's cool, work is painfully slow today. LOL

Funny you mention Jolida---the guy who bought my Carbon 7's just got a new Jolida, BROKEN. They're sending him a replacement.

The Music Hall looks interesting.

EndersShadow

concealer404 wrote: »

Bonus points for USB input as well, just in case i get super nerdy and want to try a Squeezebawks.

You dont need USB for the Squeezebox, you want either coaxial or optical

USB would be needed ONLY if you connect your computer direct to the DAC.

steveinaz

zackly. Let's walk before we run...K?

concealer404

steveinaz wrote: »

It's cool, work is painfully slow today. LOL

Funny you mention Jolida---the guy who bought my Carbon 7's just got a new Jolida, BROKEN. They're sending him a replacement.

The Music Hall looks interesting.

That SUCKS. It looks sooooo cool, too!

EndersShadow wrote: »

You dont need USB for the Squeezebox, you want either coaxial or optical

USB would be needed ONLY if you connect your computer direct to the DAC.

Oh yeah... shows what i know about these newfangled streaming thingymabobbers, huh?

steveinaz wrote: »

zackly. Let's walk before we run...K?

Sooo... 4 inputs? o_O This is becoming a challenge!

steveinaz

So, you need connections for:

BluRay/CD (coax)
Satellite box audio out for TV viewing (you'll want toslink for this as most of them generate ground loop probs)
Play station..is this toslink and coax or just toslink?

Correct? Finding 2 toslink connections on a DAC might be a challenge...there is a "work-around" (Inday switcher)

tonyb

I'm not in the same camp as any of you. The B&K is pretty solid, and the dacs in that are going to be better than any 300 buck dac he adds. I would say the amp and the speakers are the weeker links.

Now, given all the different devices you use one system for, I might be tempted to sell it all and start over. Grab a pioneer SC receiver or equivilent, will give you all the connection needs, plus maybe some Phone capabilities for control if that interest you, better dacs, and a better HT experience. Add the Dared pre in the mix and whatever is left in the budget work on source upgrades. Just seems like too many bandaids are going on.

steveinaz

I'd simplify too, but i don't want to step on toes.

heiney9

tonyb wrote: »

I'm not in the same camp as any of you. The B&K is pretty solid, and the dacs in that are going to be better than any 300 buck dac he adds. I would say the amp and the speakers are the weeker links.

Now, given all the different devices you use one system for, I might be tempted to sell it all and start over. Grab a pioneer SC receiver or equivilent, will give you all the connection needs, plus maybe some Phone capabilities for control if that interest you, better dacs, and a better HT experience. Add the Dared pre in the mix and whatever is left in the budget work on source upgrades. Just seems like too many bandaids are going on.

So you think the B&K dac section will out perform the Audio GD NFB-3 or 3.1? That I'd like to know/hear. Or even the Keces DA-131? The Keces sounds damn good

H9

concealer404

tonyb wrote: »

I'm not in the same camp as any of you. The B&K is pretty solid, and the dacs in that are going to be better than any 300 buck dac he adds. I would say the amp and the speakers are the weeker links.

Now, given all the different devices you use one system for, I might be tempted to sell it all and start over. Grab a pioneer SC receiver or equivilent, will give you all the connection needs, plus maybe some Phone capabilities for control if that interest you, better dacs, and a better HT experience. Add the Dared pre in the mix and whatever is left in the budget work on source upgrades. Just seems like too many bandaids are going on.

The B&K doesn't have any DACs at all, as far as i know. It's been awhile since i've looked at the back of it, but i know i've never tried to feed it a digital signal, and being that i'm a "tinkerer," i probably would have tried if i could.

It's a straight 2-channel preamp. It's not a PT-5 or whatever the normal stuff is i guess. It's a Reference 5 S2.

concealer404

steveinaz wrote: »

So, you need connections for:

BluRay/CD (coax)
Satellite box audio out for TV viewing (you'll want toslink for this as most of them generate ground loop probs)
Play station..is this toslink and coax or just toslink?

Correct? Finding 2 toslink connections on a DAC might be a challenge...there is a "work-around" (Inday switcher)

I think i could get by leaving the TV out. I can't imagine the signal being passed through U-Verse would improve to a night and day difference if ran through an outboard DAC, but i could be wrong i suppose. Thoughts?

steveinaz wrote: »

I'd simplify too, but i don't want to step on toes.

I gave this some thought, but i don't really want to mess with a receiver unless i'm doing a multi-channel HT setup, and i'm not.

heiney9 wrote: »

So you think the B&K dac section will out perform the Audio GD NFB-3 or 3.1? That I'd like to know/hear. Or even the Keces DA-131? The Keces sounds damn good

H9

That's what i need to find out, but i'm 99% sure the B&K doesn't have a DAC section at all.




[EDIT]
Verified. No digital inputs on the preamp.