Mixing RTi A7 with LSi7

David R

Can I mix the RTi A7 fronts with LSi7 rears. I have a onkyo tx-nr809 receiver with settings for 4 and 6 ohms.

chumlie

Not recomended.

David R

Onlyo TX-NR809
The receiver's specs are:
135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,
2 channels driven, FTC)
Times 7

I am thinking that the automatic microphone equalization would calibrate the speakers correctly.

What do you think?

gudnoyez

Dont think that running a 4 ohm and 8 ohm load will be good for your reciever, I wouldnt suggest it. stick with a 8 ohm load neither of those speakers are 6 ohms anyways. Who makes 6 ohm speakers these days? Mixing ohms is not recomended

nhhiep

1. Does the spec of the AVR say it supports 4ohmz? If not, you will likely kill your AVR soon.
2. LSi7s sound way better than the A7. Should put the Lsi7s in the front if I were you.

David R

nhhiep wrote: »

1. Does the spec of the AVR say it supports 4ohmz? If not, you will likely kill your AVR soon.
2. LSi7s sound way better than the A7. Should put the Lsi7s in the front if I were you.

Yes the receiver does support 4 ohm but Onkyo does not recommend that I mix 4 and 8 ohm. It is a $1,100 receiver.

hertz9753

David R wrote: »

Yes the receiver does support 4 ohm but Onkyo does not recommend that I mix 4 and 8 ohm. It is a $1,100 receiver.

Do you already own the Lsi7's?

David R

hertz9753 wrote: »

Do you already own the Lsi7's?

I do not own the LSi7. I own the RtiA7 . Now it looks like I would rather have the LSi series.

The RTi 1 s have that strange piece of grey plastic on them. The 3's are a little large for my bookcase. The LSi7 would fit just right. The A series seem a little bright.

hertz9753

David R wrote: »

I do not own the LSi7. I own the RtiA7 . Now it looks like I would rather have the LSi series.

The RTi 1 s have that strange piece of grey plastic on them. The 3's are a little large for my bookcase. The LSi7 would fit just right. The A series seem a little bright.

I have a pair of Lsi9's in my bedroom and they are so smooth and tight. I'm running a H/K 3490 as a pre-amp and an Adcom GFA 5400 amp on them. I thought they would be in my bedroom for a long time...three months later and they are going in my sig soon.

I know that your receiver has a 4 omh setting that will reduce your watts per channel so you could run the now Lsi7's now with all of of your speakers.

tonyb

David,
Lets get serious here for a minute. The LSI 7's are the easier of that series to drive and most likely won't represent that heavy of a load to a beefier receiver such as yours. Any more than that though, and you should get an amp.

Now, hook them up as surrounds, leave your receiver as is, do not switch it to 6 ohm, and you should be ok providing your not trying to reach concert level volumes. Done.

hertz9753

tonyb wrote: »

David,
Lets get serious here for a minute. The LSI 7's are the easier of that series to drive and most likely won't represent that heavy of a load to a beefier receiver such as yours. Any more than that though, and you should get an amp.

Now, hook them up as surrounds, leave your receiver as is, do not switch it to 6 ohm, and you should be ok providing your not trying to reach concert level volumes. Done.

Thank you! Still learning.:cool:

pyrocyborg

Yeah, LSi7 rarely drop under a 6 ohm load, except with low frequencies. As a rear speaker, it probably won't make a lot of those frequencies. As tonyb said, keep it under 90 dB, and your receiver shouldn't suffer. Anyways, a lot of speakers go way lower than the advertised impedance. I do not know for the RTiA or RTi lines, but some 8 ohm speakers goes as low as 3 ohm for low frequencies.

However, I think it's a sad fate for a pair of LSi7 to be relegated to rear duties as they're mostly musical speakers, capable of details and smooth sound, way over what a pair of RTiA7 can do. However, RTiA7 can go deeper, provide a wide soundstage and are easier on the receiver (considering impedance, not power load).

As for the comparison RTiA3 vs LSi7: they're almost the same size, except the RTiA3 is 4 inches deeper, so if you plan on using them on bookshelves, maybe a pair of RTiA1 is a better idea, except if you don't like that strange piece of plastic (which I don't know about... them seemed the same when compared to RTiA3, except the size).

tonyb

Agree, kinda a waste in a surround position in my book. Thinking the RTIA 3's maybe a better match to the A7's up front also.

If you plan on adding more LSI speakers, or bigger speakers up front, or going 7 channel, your going to tax that receiver pretty good so have an amp in the budget if you move that route.

David R

tonyb wrote: »

Agree, kinda a waste in a surround position in my book. Thinking the RTIA 3's maybe a better match to the A7's up front also.

If you plan on adding more LSI speakers, or bigger speakers up front, or going 7 channel, your going to tax that receiver pretty good so have an amp in the budget if you move that route.

My receiver is the TX-NR 809 which is has 7 high current amps putting out 135 watts each. Is that not enough? I bought is at Fry's and I am still within 30 days so it can not be returned. The RTi A7's are over the 30 days and can not be returned. Any ideas?
It seems that you can pick up the LSi speakers cheap. What would I do with the A7s. It is bright and fatiguing.

pyrocyborg

David R wrote: »

My receiver is the TX-NR 809 which is has 7 high current amps putting out 135 watts each. Is that not enough? I bought is at Fry's and I am still within 30 days so it can not be returned. The RTi A7's are over the 30 days and can not be returned. Any ideas?
It seems that you can pick up the LSi speakers cheap. What would I do with the A7s. It is bright and fatiguing.

Well, some people might tell you that getting a warmer receiver could help taming the bright RTi. However, all this kind of receiver do is emphasing on bass by giving it a +2 dB boost for example, and lowering the treble by -2 dB at a neutral "knob" position. You could try adjusting the bass and treble this way (-2 or -4 treble, and +2 bass), and see if you like it this way. I did that for my RTi4/RTi6/RTiA3 and it was okay. I did lost a bit of that crystalline sound and detail, but it was better to my ears.

I just swaped my Yamaha "considered" bright receiver to a NAD considered warm amp and well, when they're both in straight/bypass mode, they sound the same except the NAD has a better quality sound with better definition and clear sound. So, changing your amp might not help tame that problem as you can use your bass/treble knobs to a similar effect.

However, what I can tell is that those bass drivers in your RTiA7 loves power, and the higher the power they can get, the more bass they will make; it could play a good role in lowering that impression of harshness (as the bass/mid-bass would be higher) and the treble would stay the same. It would be tamed naturally... but as your Onkyo receiver has, IMO, plenty of power, it might not be that usefull to change it as it might only make a slight, but still noticeable difference. You could go for separates, get a good 200w per channel amp and a cheaper receiver, but you'll end up with a "crappier" pre-amp, which isn't better in any ways.

Sure, LSi are better, less fatiguing as people says (I do not have mine yet, so I can't tell), but as you can't return your RTiA7, I don't know what I would do... IMO, RTi were very very good for HT duties, less for music as they can be irritating to people who prefer a warmer sound. By lowering the treble, I was able to get great performance in HT while not having those ear-piercing high. I loved them, but as I do listen to music 90% of the time, LSi were a better choice.

tonyb

David R wrote: »

My receiver is the TX-NR 809 which is has 7 high current amps putting out 135 watts each. Is that not enough? I bought is at Fry's and I am still within 30 days so it can not be returned. The RTi A7's are over the 30 days and can not be returned. Any ideas?
It seems that you can pick up the LSi speakers cheap. What would I do with the A7s. It is bright and fatiguing.

David, first off, the receiver doesn't put out 135 watts each channel running in 7 channel surround. Second, as good as your receiver is, it still is not capable of running 4 ohm speakers which the LSI series are. The 7's are closer to 6 ohm and in a surround position, should do ok with your receiver, but adding more 4 ohm speakers to your setup will likely result in a blown speaker, or overheated receiver.

If your sold on the LSI speakers, you are going to need an amplifier, one that has a channel for every 4 ohm speaker you add. You can always sell the RTI7's local if you can't return them, on your local craigslist.

NewHTguy

David R wrote: »

My receiver is the TX-NR 809 which is has 7 high current amps putting out 135 watts each. Is that not enough? I bought is at Fry's and I am still within 30 days so it can not be returned. The RTi A7's are over the 30 days and can not be returned. Any ideas?
It seems that you can pick up the LSi speakers cheap. What would I do with the A7s. It is bright and fatiguing.

FWIW, at some point I plan to use my Onk 875 to run a Lsic and two Lsi7s as surrounds in a 5.1 setup. That is probably pushing it a bit, but I'm not too worried because we never listen to movies at a high volume. It sounds like, with the benefit of hindsight, you now realize that you bought the wrong speakers for you (the A7s). I made the same mistake with Rti10s. In the grand scheme of things it is no big deal. But don't let one mistake lead to another. Come to terms with the fact that good sound doesn't come cheap. And once you're into a full lsi set-up, an AVR can't do it all. Save your money, bite the bullet, and do it right. Better than always asking I wonder how much better it would sound if I had spent a *little* more.

Just my two cents. Good luck!

David R

NewHTguy wrote: »

FWIW, at some point I plan to use my Onk 875 to run a Lsic and two Lsi7s as surrounds in a 5.1 setup. That is probably pushing it a bit, but I'm not too worried because we never listen to movies at a high volume. It sounds like, with the benefit of hindsight, you now realize that you bought the wrong speakers for you (the A7s). I made the same mistake with Rti10s. In the grand scheme of things it is no big deal. But don't let one mistake lead to another. Come to terms with the fact that good sound doesn't come cheap. And once you're into a full lsi set-up, an AVR can't do it all. Save your money, bite the bullet, and do it right. Better than always asking I wonder how much better it would sound if I had spent a *little* more.

Just my two cents. Good luck!

Are you saying that I should return the 809. Sell the A7s. Get seperate amps and go with the LSI series. Are you mixing 4 ohm with 8 ohm speakers with you receiver? I do not listen at high volumns. Is my receiver at 135 wats not going to work.

I used to have Crown speakers. 12 electrostatic panels plus 2 ten inch wooferrs per side but they were huge and the wife hated them. I haven't found anything that I like nearly as much and this is my attempt to replace them and move on. I hated the Martin Logans. Ouch. The A7's seem harsh. I can still return the 809s.

hertz9753

David R wrote: »

Are you saying that I should return the 809. Sell the A7s. Get seperate amps and go with the LSI series. Are you mixing 4 ohm with 8 ohm speakers with you receiver? I do not listen at high volumns. Is my receiver at 135 wats not going to work.

I used to have Crown speakers. 12 electrostatic panels plus 2 ten inch wooferrs per side but they were huge and the wife hated them. I haven't found anything that I like nearly as much and this is my attempt to replace them and move on. I hated the Martin Logans. Ouch. The A7's seem harsh. I can still return the 809s.

How much did you pay for the Onkyo 809?

David R

hertz9753 wrote: »

How much did you pay for the Onkyo 809?

$700 plus tax.

NewHTguy

David R wrote: »

Are you saying that I should return the 809. Sell the A7s. Get seperate amps and go with the LSI series. Are you mixing 4 ohm with 8 ohm speakers with you receiver? I do not listen at high volumns. Is my receiver at 135 wats not going to work.

If I had to replace my receiver tomorrow, I would buy an Onk 809 so, NO, I would not return it. Even if you use it as a preamp with an ext amp, it is nice to have decent power in case your external amp needs a repair. I also believe that you could run either the Lsi7s or the A7s with the 809 with no harm to either the speakers or the AVR. I'm running my Lsi7s with an Hk3490 which probably puts out similar power as the 809 with two channels.

The problem is with trying to do both. The two lines have different timbres and don't belong in the same system even if you have an external amp. I say this and I am not as picky as many of the folks on the forum. I have "mixed" Lsi25s, OWM3s, and CS20. But I was running the 25s off an external amp and the rest off the Onk 875. It wasn't clear to me whether you really wanted a surround system, or were merely trying to make use of speakers you don't really enjoy. In either scenario mixing the two very different sounding speakers is far from ideal. So just take the (financial) hit and start over with the speakers you prefer.

In summary, if I were you I would be willing to do either of the following WITHOUT an amp:
1) one pair of LSi9s ($510) with no center
2) one pair of Lsi7s ($360) AND a Lsic
If you want to run more than that I would seek additional power.

Once again, just my two cents...

pyrocyborg

I'M not sure I would try the LSi9 without a 4 ohm rated amp/receiver. As for the LSi7 which are also rated at 4 ohm but rarely drops under 6 ohms, as NewHTguy said, you could be fine as long as you don't mix RTI (8 ohms) and LSi (4 ohms) speakers together on the same amp.

But...It doesn't clear your issue with RTi being bright... I'm sure you could sell them on craiglist, even if you lose a small amount of money; then, you could buy a pair or two of LSi (7 or 9), if they're still in clearance, and a separate amp for probably only a bit more. But there again, you'll have to buy speaker stands for them, which never runs under 100-150$ a pair for "budget quality" ones.

However, if you really have a big HT room (let's say 30 feet per 20), I don't think I could recommand bookshelf speakers, as they might struggle doing their job right at higher volumes.

NewHTguy

pyrocyborg wrote: »

I'M not sure I would try the LSi9 without a 4 ohm rated amp/receiver. As for the LSi7 which are also rated at 4 ohm but rarely drops under 6 ohms, as NewHTguy said, you could be fine as long as you don't mix RTI (8 ohms) and LSi (4 ohms) speakers together on the same amp.

I believe the Onk 809 is 4 Ohm stable. Thatis why the set-up gives you the option. But I think it may limit the power when it is in that mode. Recall reading that about my Onk 875.

I've used my 875 to power my Lsi25s for a couple of weeks when my amp was in moving boxes. It sounded pretty good but I was careful to not turn the volume up. I suspect the Lsi25s are actually easier to drive than the 9s though, at least when the 9s are set to large, since the 25s can send some of the base to the woofers which have their own power.

tonyb

NewHTguy wrote: »

I believe the Onk 809 is 4 Ohm stable. Thatis why the set-up gives you the option. But I think it may limit the power when it is in that mode. Recall reading that about my Onk 875.
.

Do you not see the problem with this ? The receiver is supposedly stable at 4 ohms....yet limits the power ? Most receivers are not intended to run 4 ohm anything for extended periods, regardless of what the marketing info claims. Your not doing yourself any favors by running 4 ohm speakers from a mid line receiver, unless you enjoy buying speakers on a regular basis, your coin.

David R

tonyb wrote: »

Do you not see the problem with this ? The receiver is supposedly stable at 4 ohms....yet limits the power ? Most receivers are not intended to run 4 ohm anything for extended periods, regardless of what the marketing info claims. Your not doing yourself any favors by running 4 ohm speakers from a mid line receiver, unless you enjoy buying speakers on a regular basis, your coin.

The onk 809 is 4 ohm certified

tonyb

David R wrote: »

The onk 809 is 4 ohm certified

Marketing B.S......understand what that means. What they mean is they limit or reduce the current to keep the mediocre power supply from over heating and frying your receiver. What does a 4 ohm speaker need most ? Current....follow me ?

NewHTguy

tonyb wrote: »

Do you not see the problem with this ? The receiver is supposedly stable at 4 ohms....yet limits the power ? Most receivers are not intended to run 4 ohm anything for extended periods, regardless of what the marketing info claims. Your not doing yourself any favors by running 4 ohm speakers from a mid line receiver, unless you enjoy buying speakers on a regular basis, your coin.

I've been reading posts here for long enough to know that more power is, generally speaking, always better and safer for the speakers. I'm not doubting that. However, I've also seen posts from folks who were using a receiver with Lsi's and claim to have not had any problems. You may be right. I guess I would be willing to use a strong AVR if I didn't have the money for an amp, but just keep the volume down. I have yet to hear any horror stories from folks who killed their lsis by pushing them at modest levels with a receiver. However, I have heard many talk about the improvement in sound quality they got once they connected an external amp.

tonyb

There's a difference between a 2000 buck receiver and a 6-800 dollar one. Also a difference with ice amps which can handle the load better. Read up my friend, we only serve to help you not have some of the headaches associated with under powered speakers.

Driving LSI 25'S and LSI center off that Onkyo isn't going to end well.

NewHTguy

I never questioned your good intentions? In fact, I'm actually doing what you would recommend.
ALso if you reread my post, you'll see that i never suggested running a center with anything but the 7s.

gp4jesus

I agree w/tonyb concerning "4 ohm caution." "What does a 4 ohm speaker need most ? Current!" Spot on, dude!! Further that's assuming a "resistive 4ohms!" Ha! Don't be surprized if the load dropped below 3ohms somewhere in the plot causing current demands to skyrocket.

Unless that non-class "D" AVR co$ts a bundle, Rotel & NAD* come to mind, careful w/the volume, checking the case temp during extended blasts.
* no offense; I'm sure there are others

Sidenote: No heat seeking missiles for what follows, please. Here's where I "slap the hornet's nest." A little known ('A7) fact Polk left off the web site: below the sub's XO frequency (125Hz) nominal impedance* drops to 4 ohms*. You read that right, now read why. NO HP filtering to the Mid - the mid & subs are in parallel* below 125hz.
*jbooker82, VR3 (Trey), & 1-2 others know all this first hand

To anyone "listening:" If you want HT immersion, don't mix speaker lines. For example: RTi A vs RTi series. Timber & phase differences, however small, due to slightly different XO components & subtle driver differences are what makes them different.

To the OP: We have the same speakers LCR & surrounds*! Great minds think alike! Shalom!
* I have a single RTi A1 center back