The Value of Sub Placement
jesyjames
Posts: 52
Just a quick note, we had a Lion King "party" last night at my brother's place. He has a 2 year old that was so excited to watch the film she was convulsing. So he invited all our family over to watch it with them.
His setup is a SVS-PB2+, complete line of Paradigm Studio V3s, and a high end line of separates whose names I'm unsure of. His system, minus tv, easily cost upwards of 7000.
This is the first time I'd had a chance to hear it since he got everything up and running and properly calibrated.
We'd read so many good reviews online about the Lion King soundtrack that we were prepared to be blown away.
Our reaction? Very underwhelmed on the low end.
I came home and popped in the same DVD on my much more budget oriented polk system, denon avr receiver, and svs 20-39+.
The low end was incredible.
The difference? I spent hours getting the placement right on my sub. Frequency plots, graphs, phase adjustments, etc, etc, etc.
His room is quite a bit bigger than mine, but nonetheless properly calibrated his SVS PB2+ should sound incredible. But, it didn't.
This will begin a new project of investing that same time into getting his sub properly positioned.
I was really asounded at the difference between mine and his. He admits to not having played with placement at all, only doing level adjustments.
The moral of the story:
Love your sub and find the right spot for it. There may not be a *perfect* one, but there is probably one that is better than others.
For a more concrete example:
On the opening scene where the elephants come walking in there wasn't any bass noticable on his. Playing that same scene on my system revealed a mild, but nonetheless exciting, bass effect to match the steps.
His setup is a SVS-PB2+, complete line of Paradigm Studio V3s, and a high end line of separates whose names I'm unsure of. His system, minus tv, easily cost upwards of 7000.
This is the first time I'd had a chance to hear it since he got everything up and running and properly calibrated.
We'd read so many good reviews online about the Lion King soundtrack that we were prepared to be blown away.
Our reaction? Very underwhelmed on the low end.
I came home and popped in the same DVD on my much more budget oriented polk system, denon avr receiver, and svs 20-39+.
The low end was incredible.
The difference? I spent hours getting the placement right on my sub. Frequency plots, graphs, phase adjustments, etc, etc, etc.
His room is quite a bit bigger than mine, but nonetheless properly calibrated his SVS PB2+ should sound incredible. But, it didn't.
This will begin a new project of investing that same time into getting his sub properly positioned.
I was really asounded at the difference between mine and his. He admits to not having played with placement at all, only doing level adjustments.
The moral of the story:
Love your sub and find the right spot for it. There may not be a *perfect* one, but there is probably one that is better than others.
For a more concrete example:
On the opening scene where the elephants come walking in there wasn't any bass noticable on his. Playing that same scene on my system revealed a mild, but nonetheless exciting, bass effect to match the steps.
Post edited by jesyjames on
Comments
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GREAT thread topic. I can't tell you how many people are underwhelmed by their sub when they could be thrilled with a bit of work on placement.
He might very well have a huge null at the seat and never even know it. I'm really big on graphing the FR and moving the sub as needed; rooms are so difficult sometimes.
Yes, the PB2+ should be more powerful than the 20-39PC+. But it won't play deeper unless you plug a port. I doubt that Lion King has subsonic content, and the PB2+ is strong to 22 Hz in room with all ports open and the SS filter set to 25 Hz. But maybe those elephants steps are near subsonic?
I'll try that scene on mine tomorrow.......but I run my SS filter at 16 Hz to extend my low end and I'm good to 15-16 Hz in room anyway with all ports still open.
What tune is he running the PB2+ in?
Doc"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS -
I couldn't agree more, I spent probably 4-5 hours straight trying to find the right placement. I have found that the best way is to put the sub in the listening position (if possible) and walk and crawl all over the room until it sounds best. Then swap places and fine tune the positioning.Graham
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I think he has it in the default configuration as far as the ports go.
Literally, there wasn't any bass on the elephant steps on his. But on mine there was just a cool little thud. Nothing quite like a Two Towers wing flag, mind you, but just something that adds mildly to the soundtrack.
My guess is that there's a null going on to. Also, there's something to be said for a nice house curve. -
Originally posted by Dr. Spec
I'm really big on graphing the FR and moving the sub as needed; rooms are so difficult sometimes.
Hey Doc, perhaps one of these days you can work with me on graphing the FR and making any necessary adjustments pre- and post sub placement (if needed), although my Sony DVD player can't play burned discs if there are sweeps to run (don't know what to do if I need to run sweeps in this manner). Right now is no good, as my back is killing me after two bouts w/ what I think is a slipped disc - seeing an orthopedic surgeon on Monday. Damn sciatic nerve! KBMains: polkaudio RTi70's (bi-wired)
Center: polkaudio CSi40 (bi-wired)
Surrounds: polkaudio FXi30's
Rear Center: polkaudio CSi30
Sub: SVS 20-39 PC+
Receiver: ONKYO TX-SR600
Display: JVC HD-56G786
DVD Player: SONY DVP-CX985V
DVD Player: OPPO DV-981HD 1080p High Definition Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI
Remote: Logitech Harmony H688 -
Originally posted by jesyjames
For a more concrete example:
On the opening scene where the elephants come walking in there wasn't any bass noticable on his. Playing that same scene on my system revealed a mild, but nonetheless exciting, bass effect to match the steps.
This was prompted me to appreciate the quality of this DVD last night. We (me and the kids) went thru this segment, and I distinctly *felt* the rumble as the elephant herd passed by. Also, there were exactly 8 distinct elephant steps in that segment. It was low and clean, so it's almost impossible to miss those. I would be interested to hear Doc's assessment on how low those rumble goes. Let us know, Doc!...I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie. -
Yeah I think its a node or null in your room. It may have just been where you are sitting, i used to have a node that completely killed the bass but you could move your head back a foot and a half and it sounded great, I moved the sub and now its fixed but in a less than desirable position.
