Upgrading to MM6501...Which amp is best?

ocharlas

Well I had a whole huge thing written out, so huge that I guess at some point the forum logged me out, so when I went to post it took me to the login screen and everything went byebye. So I'll just post the bullet points.

I currently have the stock monsoon setup in my GTI. Double din head, amp, components front and rear. Sounds like crap. The amp pushes 20w to each tweeter, 20w to the front 6.5s, and 30w to the rear 6.5s which they refer to as subwoofers. The "subs" run @ 2ohms while the rest is at 4. Also, the amp has an internal crossover.

I bought a new head, a JVC KW-AVX840, which has 3 sets of 4v outs. Ordinarily I wouldn't get JVC (I've always been a, but $375 for a 7" DVD with 3 sets of 4v outs, I decided to go for it. Plus, word on the street is that their stuff has gotten much better. We'll see.

I want to put MM6501s in the front, but am not sure that the factory amp can put out enough power to adequately drive them (40w/side total - 20 low/20 high). Although since the MMs are 2ohms where the stock speakers were 4, will they pull more power? And how does the internal crossover affect stuff? Would I not use the polk ones?

That's part A. Part B is if the amp doesn't look like it'll be powerful enough, what would be the best (inexpensive) solution? I'd like the d4000.4 but I think the PA660 and 200.4 are more realistically in my budget. The X factor is I've also got a Rockford T110D2, a 10" Power Stage 1 series sub rated at 600W RMS @ 2ohms (it's pretty jacked...), which I would also like to throw in there, and I'm wondering again if those amps will have enough power. The setup would be something like this (feel free to lob other ideas at me please):

MM6501s in front power by channels 1&2 of amp (85W each w/ PA660, 50W each w/ 220.4)
Stock speakers in back (probably faded down) powered by head unit or stock amp if that stays in somehow.
Sub powered by channels 3&4 bridged @ 2ohms (specs say 150w @ 4ohms, so I guess 300?)

Does this work? Of course, if y'alls think the factory amp would do the trick then I guess all this is moot, but whatever. I got in the zone.

Thanks in advance for the help.

ocharlas

Also, it looks like the PA660 is much less efficient at 75dBA vs the 200.4 at 98dBA.

EBAN44

I would look into getting a 5 channel amp and bridging the 1-4 channels for the mm6501s and then use the sub channel. There are a lot of choices out there so just see what you can afford. I think the new polk 5 channel just came out also.

ocharlas

Interesting. Unfortunately most 5 channel amps are out of my price range. The plan I had settled on (for now) was just to power the MM6501s off of the factory monsoon amp, which I know is underpowered (20w x 2 @ 4ohms to tweeters and 20x2 @ 4ohms to woofers) but I figure no matter what has to be cleaner power than the JVC head. The question I have though is whether I'll be ok putting a 4ohm load to the 2.7ohm rated speakers. Also, are they rated 2.7ohms because that's the combined impedance of tweeter and woofer? Meaning - Is the tweeter 4ohm and the bass driver 2ohm or vice versa? And would THAT cause weirdness, since I wouldn't be using the supplied crossovers (I think the amp has internal crossovers - not confirmed)? Sorry if I'm wording stuff weird...

and thanks eban44 for the advice!

ooh wait...Ω! option + z for mac guys.

arun1963

Your speakers dictate the load your amp runs at. Impedence will vary with frequency. Across the 10 octaves the speakers would measure closer to 4ohms. You don't have to worry on that count. I don't think this is something you should worry about.

Option B is clearly better. Ditch the rears and run the RF sub.

ocharlas

Thanks for the input. I like option B as well, the only part that's left to figure out is a) which amp to get and b) how to get it as cheap as possible. Originally my plan was to just get a new head, but once you start looking around...well you know...self imposed limits tend to get away from you.

I'd like to stay with Polk, that way I have at least two important items that are the same brand. I know that doesn't really matter, but I like the idea of having some continuity. Obviously both the PA d5000.5 and D1100.5 are way out of my price range, as is the D4000.1. I see used/niob PA660s going for about $100 on eBay, 200.4 for slightly more. Which would be better?

EBAN44

Like I told one of my friends recently but he went against what I said and now is mad about it.
Save up money first and buy once.
He ended up buying a bunch of cheap amps, speakers, etc and he is still not happy and have 4 different amps laying around and a few speakers.
Save your money until you can afford good speakers and a good amp or else you will just not be happy and want to get something else.
I'm using the crossovers for my mm6501 and pushing around 300 watts to each channel. They love it and hit hard.
Just save up until you can get a good amp for the speakers and sub.
Just my 2cents

ocharlas

300w per channel??? that's....impressive. I thought peak handling for those was 250?

As far as saving up for the good stuff, I agree with you 100%. That's usually my philosophy as well, I'm just getting the system-building jitters. I like building a nice system all at once.

Interestingly enough though, since my last post, my tax return came in. I still want to keep it reasonable of course, but I guess slightly less reasonable is acceptable. I still don't think I'm going to get a 5 channel because I really don't see myself doing anything with the rears, and my car doesn't have much space. If I can get an amp that'll fit under the seat I'll be pumped.

so...D4000.4? It looks like it should pretty much be perfect for my application - 200w to each speaker and 400w to the sub.

ocharlas

ok last question:

If I'm going to be powering everything with the D4000.4, what gauge wiring kit should I go for? It already have 8 gauge run through my car from previous owner's sub setup, but I don't know if that'll cut it, or if I need 4 gauge.

Vital

I always go with AT LEAST 4 gauge for any subwoofer set up.
While 8g might do (and does in a lot of setups) you really don't know if that 8g you have form previous owner is any good or it's cheap WalMart-type kit.

ocharlas

Done and done.

Ordered the D4000.4 last night with an Audiopipe 4g wiring kit (I know they're probably not an awesome brand but I didn't feel like shelling out another $100 for monster cable). The description for the amp recommended using 4g. $262 shipped!

Oh and the 8g wiring already in the car is actually Tsunami cable but still I feel better having ordered the 4g. Now all that's left to do is wait for all my various parts to arrive! Oh...and the installation. Should have everything by thursday hopefully (amp is shipping from RI and I'm in NY).

ocharlas

Ok, system is alll done, albeit subs are temporary. Tried to keep the whole thing pretty low key, I think it turned out pretty well. Here's a couple pics:
JVC KW-AVX840

MM6501

PA D4000.4

Diamond Audio D1

I did screw up the driver side sail panel, which is why there are no pictures of that side...it'll be remedied soon enough. The setup sounds awesome, leagues better than any car system I've had in the past. I'm really glad I went with the MMs, I love the silky sweet highs. I'm also really happy with the JVC head, I did have my doubts because of the reputation they've had in the past, but at the price I paid (under $400) this is a great looking, great sounding unit (4v pres) and it has a pretty nice flexible eq section too (even though I tend to EQ really lightly - 1db cut @ 500hz and that's it). The only thing I need now is to get an SR104 DVC and then I'm really done.

Vital

How do you like D4000.4?
What amps did you have before it?

And also - where in NY are you?

ocharlas

I love it! tons of clean power in a wee tiny footprint, and it's way handsomer than the alpines. the only other amps I've tried were Audiobahn, and several Rockfords, both punch and power series. the Audiobahn was crap, and punch series RF... Meh. the power series were really nice but they were massive, and the D4000 .4 still has more power. I can't comment on SQ since I was running different speakers.

And I'm in Dutchess county - Poughkeepsie area

MacLeod

Umm, that amp install looks pretty scary. Could ya route those wires a little better? Im not a big stickler on wire management that you cant see but right there at the connections, Id want it a little more high and tight. All scrunched up like that and one could pop out and could literally catch that trunk liner on fire. Granted thats a worse case scenario but it could happen.

ocharlas

I'll check it out, but my mounting options are actually pretty limited. The amp is mounted on the same plate that the factory amp was attached to, the only difference is that the factory amp was about half the size. This amp is, to about 3mm, the exact same size as the plate it's mounted on. So if I move the amp up, then the top won't be secured to anything, it'll just be the two bolts at the bottom keeping it secure. And they're not that big. And unfortunately I don't have any play as to where the plate goes since it bolts right into the car. I don't think it's going to (the wires are clamped down really tight), but if the ground or battery popped out, wouldn't the amp just turn off?

BeefJerky

ocharlas wrote: »

I'll check it out, but my mounting options are actually pretty limited. The amp is mounted on the same plate that the factory amp was attached to, the only difference is that the factory amp was about half the size. This amp is, to about 3mm, the exact same size as the plate it's mounted on. So if I move the amp up, then the top won't be secured to anything, it'll just be the two bolts at the bottom keeping it secure. And they're not that big. And unfortunately I don't have any play as to where the plate goes since it bolts right into the car. I don't think it's going to (the wires are clamped down really tight), but if the ground or battery popped out, wouldn't the amp just turn off?

Sure the amp would turn off. However, if the battery cable touched any ground point directly, that would be a short, which could start a fire somewhere along the wire. It could also spark which could start a fire at the point where it touched ground. Hopefully your fuse would pop before anything bad happened. You did install a fuse on the amplifiers battery cable right near the battery, correct?

ocharlas

BeefJerky wrote: »

Sure the amp would turn off. However, if the battery cable touched any ground point directly, that would be a short, which could start a fire somewhere along the wire. It could also spark which could start a fire at the point where it touched ground. Hopefully your fuse would pop before anything bad happened. You did install a fuse on the amplifiers battery cable right near the battery, correct?

Sure did

KaosTsoc

It is not the position of the amp, but more of how the wires look. Mac like myself are really picky about how the wires should be. We like to zip tie, or tape lets say all speak wires together, then tape or tie the ground, power, and remote wires together. One good reason to do this is like what was mentioned above. The other reason, is it just looks better, and easier to maintaine if you had to get in there to do repair work or what not. There is nothing more frustrating then when you try to pull out a piece of equipment or try to make repairs, than having a bunch of wire all over the place. Just gets in the way, and boggs you down. Like I said I am just picky like that. Plus when you get to Mac level, and doing compitions, they look at the install as well, and this could mean the difference in winning by a landslide, a few points or a fraction of a point. Also really happy to hear you put in a fuse as well, this will help when needed.


Thanks.

MarkinPasadena

First post. Check out the PPI 5 channel amp, I just picked it up from Sonic the other day for $327, now it's $399 so you can probably do better.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_26456_Precision-Power-PPI-PC740.5.html#tabs

Being able to control the gains from 1-2, 3-4, and 5 are a nice, especially since I've got the MM6501's in the front, and the MM521's in the rear of my truck and I've got a MM1040 on the way. PPI was the leader in SQ, and I think they're back to their roots and at bargain prices. What I love about the amp are the features that actually allow you to customize and balance your sound.

Just check out page 19 to get a view of all the features.

http://www.precisionpower.com/Manuals/Amplifier%20Manuals/2010pc.pdf

Whatever you do, good luck and have fun.