How much current is 10 amps of current?

hochpt21

I am running 2 M70's with an HK avr240 (7.1). In stereo mode it has 65 wpc and 35 watts of current. I don't feel like I am getting the overall crispness out of the 70's that I did when I had 2 M50's hooked up to the same setup. I have read that it is current and not wpc that will help bring out the quality of the 70's. I am looking at the HK 3490, which I have heard good things about as a stereo receiver. It has 120 wpc and 45 watts of current.

Will this be a significant upgrade from what I am currently using?

PS. I started a different thread a couple weeks ago and was thinking about adding an amp to the HK 240, but have now probably decided against that.

lanchile

Go for Adcom...they are well known for building high current amps. Very good amps indeed!!! There are many nice ones on Ebay.

quadzilla

10 amps is.... 10 amps. If you're asking if that's low, medium, or high as far as amps go, I'd call it at the high end of low. I've seen amps that can push as much as 60 amps bursts. 30 is what I consider pretty good.

hochpt21

Looking at my OP, I may have over-complicated things. Basically, I am asking if it would be an upgrade to get the HK 3490 stereo receiver over the HK avr 240. It would be about a $100 upgrade if I sell the 240.

tonyb

Where did you come up with those current specs for the HK ? Seem way over value for a receiver.

Your current HK is more than enough for the M70's, especially in just 2 channel...and you have a sub picking up the low end too. Do you have them set to large or small ? Have you tried different crossover settings ?

hochpt21

tonyb wrote: »

Where did you come up with those current specs for the HK ? Seem way over value for a receiver.

Your current HK is more than enough for the M70's, especially in just 2 channel...and you have a sub picking up the low end too. Do you have them set to large or small ? Have you tried different crossover settings ?

The manual lists..."High Instantaneous Current Capability (HCC): ?45 Amps"
I don't have the remote and can only change some of the settings from the faceplate. Large/small and crossover settings can only be done with the remote.

F1nut

You NEED the remote.

tonyb

hochpt21 wrote: »

The manual lists..."High Instantaneous Current Capability (HCC): ?45 Amps"
I don't have the remote and can only change some of the settings from the faceplate. Large/small and crossover settings can only be done with the remote.

Don't you think being able to adjust the settings is of more importance ? Or is it you just want a new receiver which if thats the case, cool, grab one. I think finding a remote and adjusting the settings will be of concern for resale purposes too, while also giving you some more time to evaluate the receiver you have.

I doubt those current specs are peak to peak. I don't know of 3000 buck avr's with 45 amps peak to peak. Thats seperate amplifier territory, not something found in a 400 buck avr.

hochpt21

I got the HK 240 as part of a package deal on CL with no remote and my initial intent was to use it until I could get something to better suit my 2 channel needs. So yes, part of it is just wanting a new receiver. I was also thinking the 3490 would be able to work with a speaker upgrade if/when I decide to do that. Ideally, I would like to continue upgrading the 2 channel system component piece at a time as my budget and ears develop.

John K.

Pt21, the first point is that, as other replies have indicated, you have to be able to fully control your receiver with the remote if you expect to get the best sound from your setup.

As to current, whatever you read that stated that shows that there wasn't an understanding about how current and power work. Current isn't an independent factor; when a certain amount of power is used in a certain speaker load resistance, a specific amount of current flows according to Ohm's Law. The current in amperes is equal to the square root of the quantity[power/impedance]. This follows automatically and different amplifiers can't somehow create different current flow for a certain amount of power into a certain speaker impedance. For example, your question of how much current is 10 amperes is answered by saying that it would be the amount of current which would result if 800 watts were used in the 8 ohm impedance of your M70s(square root of [800/8]is 10). This is obviously ridiculous since your receiver can't do anything remotely like that. The 35 ampere spec is a nonsense spec which has no meaning in the real world of home audio; it's an "instantaneous" number(e.g., an instant of a few millionths of a second measured into a testing lab resistance of less than 1 ohm). The actual result at maximum power with your setup would be the square root of [65 watts/8 ohms], which is about 2.85 amperes. Don't be fooled by manufacturer hype; current can't be your problem.

cfrizz

If the receiver does everything that you want it to do, get a remote from HK, and look on Audiogon for a separate amp of at least 200wpc @ 8ohms. This will ensure that your speakers are operating to their full potential and you can keep the amp through all other upgrades to your system.

This amp will do just great!

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/464654

deronb1

Are you talking power consumption amps?

tonyb

hochpt21 wrote: »

I got the HK 240 as part of a package deal on CL with no remote and my initial intent was to use it until I could get something to better suit my 2 channel needs. So yes, part of it is just wanting a new receiver. I was also thinking the 3490 would be able to work with a speaker upgrade if/when I decide to do that. Ideally, I would like to continue upgrading the 2 channel system component piece at a time as my budget and ears develop.

Ok...then next step is to decide if in the not too distant future, do you think you might dive into surround sound ? If not, stay with a 2 channel receiver or integrated, if so, look for an AVR that has preouts to let you add an amp down the road as you upgrade speakers. Actually, in both scenarios I would look for preouts in a receiver. Thats the one limiting factor alot overlook.

deronb1

John K. wrote: »

Pt21, the first point is that, as other replies have indicated, you have to be able to fully control your receiver with the remote if you expect to get the best sound from your setup.

As to current, whatever you read that stated that shows that there wasn't an understanding about how current and power work. Current isn't an independent factor; when a certain amount of power is used in a certain speaker load resistance, a specific amount of current flows according to Ohm's Law. The current in amperes is equal to the square root of the quantity[power/impedance]. This follows automatically and different amplifiers can't somehow create different current flow for a certain amount of power into a certain speaker impedance. For example, your question of how much current is 10 amperes is answered by saying that it would be the amount of current which would result if 800 watts were used in the 8 ohm impedance of your M70s(square root of [800/8]is 10). This is obviously ridiculous since your receiver can't do anything remotely like that. The 35 ampere spec is a nonsense spec which has no meaning in the real world of home audio; it's an "instantaneous" number(e.g., an instant of a few millionths of a second measured into a testing lab resistance of less than 1 ohm). The actual result at maximum power with your setup would be the square root of [65 watts/8 ohms], which is about 2.85 amperes. Don't be fooled by manufacturer hype; current can't be your problem.

THAT makes a hell of a lot of sense. My 220wpc Kenwood says it pulls 6.9 amps and at that, the power consumption is 1330w. Thats like a big microwave! Thanks John!

CoolJazz

deronb1 wrote: »

THAT makes a hell of a lot of sense. My 220wpc Kenwood says it pulls 6.9 amps and at that, the power consumption is 1330w. Thats like a big microwave! Thanks John!

Yep...makes perfect sense right up until you take the test tones off and start playing the music.

Music is very dynamic and very transitory. That's when the output can excede the steady state draw from the input as long as the supply has the reserves and the output devices can deliver.

CJ

F1nut

deronb1 wrote: »

THAT makes a hell of a lot of sense. My 220wpc Kenwood says it pulls 6.9 amps and at that, the power consumption is 1330w. Thats like a big microwave! Thanks John!

It's not what the amplifer draws, it's the peak to peak amps (current) that the amplifer can produce that matter. Ignore John K.'s babble, he lives in a fantasy world of specs, not the reality of home audio.

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

It's not what the amplifer draws, it's the peak to peak amps (current) that the amplifer can produce that matter..

Bingo......be carefull reading specs and how they are worded. Most are ment to deceive.

hochpt21

Can't believe it. Found a 3490 on CL for $120. Picked it up yesterday and hooked it up today.

Now I obviously can't give it a proper comparison to the avr240, because I didn't have the remote to make adjustments to the 240. However, I did a simple comparison today by listening to Pink Floyd's "Meddle" on vinyl. Initially, this was the album that got me thinking the 70's needed more than I was giving them because they didn't sound as clear as the 50's that I switched them out for. There is an acoustic guitar on the song 'Fearless' that was crisp and punchy on the 50's and was kind of soft and muddy on the 70's.

The 3490 didn't seem to give me any more volume. I had them both at -15 and I don't think one was louder than the other. However, the crisp acoustic guitar returned on 'Fearless' and overall the mids and highs seemed more well-defined.

There is definitely not a huge difference (which a lot of you already told me) However, I can hear a difference in the areas I was looking for, so I am satisfied with this unit. Plus it does have pre-outs, and it has a decent integrated phono-pre, so I can sell the one I was using with the 240.

cristo

hochpt21 wrote: »

How much current is 10 amps of current?

It's 62,410,000,000,000,000,000 electrons per second through a conductor. No more, no less.

tonyb

Sal, I think what Brock was alludeing to was peek to peek measurements mean squat as to what an amp will sound like, and he's right in that aspect. There's more to just measurements, for any piece of gear, that determines how it sounds or performs.

Kinda like finding that one gal to marry. Speakers and amps are like a marriage, one has to compliment the other.