Receiver

mode1

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking to purchase my first 5.1 setup (exciting right?). Which Yamaha RX receiver is powerful enough for the following setups (I'd like to hear other brand recommendations as well but I was curious about the RX line specifically):

Floor standing RTi A7
Center CSi A6
Rear FXi A6
Sub DSW Pro 500

OR

Floor standing RTi A9
Center CSi A6
Rear FXi A6
Sub DSW Pro 600

The trouble I'm having with picking out a receiver is that it's difficult for me to determine if the extra $ for the higher-end models is going toward power and clarity. More specifically, I'm not interested in Airplay, GUIs, 7.1 or networking. I just want the best balance of "power" and "clarity" for this 5.1 setup. Do I have to get a receiver with the extra "frills" if I'm just focused on those two items?

I hope it's not the new car buying cliche. You want the premium stereo package? Well then, you have to get the chrome rims, the sunroof, etc.

Just to be clear, I'm very new to this (so please excuse the simple question). Any help is much appreciated! Thanks for listening.

mdaudioguy

Welcome to Club Polk. Personally, I'd say RX-A2010 at a minimum, with the RTiA7s. Everyone always advises additional amplification for the 9s, and that's probably good advice. I much prefer the AVENTAGE line over the RX-V models.

mdaudioguy

Yes, the general rule is that in order to get better amps with an AVR, you also have to buy all the bells and whistles. The alternative would be the lowest priced model with pre-outs and an external amp.

Tour2ma

^ Good stuff....

Aside from my welcome the only things I'd add are:

- consider going with the DSW Pro 600 with the A-7's. For HT you can never have too much sub.

- if 5.1 is it for you, consider used gear. There's a great deal of 5.1 AVR's and AVP/ 5-ch Amp combo's out there on the cheap.

Lietuvis91

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Welcome to Club Polk. Personally, I'd say RX-A2010 at a minimum, with the RTiA7s. Everyone always advises additional amplification for the 9s, and that's probably good advice. I much prefer the AVENTAGE line over the RX-V models.

What he said, and not really much to add to that. The Advantage line is pretty impressive. I don't own one, but I have heard it.

mode1

First, thanks for your replies as I know everyone's time is valuable.

mdaudioguy: Thanks for the recommendations and the clarification regarding avr/avp specs (I thought this was the case). I wanted to see if I was in the ballpark for selecting a receiver and it seems I would have highly underestimated the resources needed to feed these speakers. It seems I have a lot of research to do in order to be properly educated. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I understand the basics behind the receiver ratings and comparing apples to apples across models/brands. The problem I'm having is correlating speaker specs to receiver specs and I think I'm missing something simple. I think I just need to learn more about speakers in general since I know next to nothing.

tonyb

Then we will help you understand.

First off, don't pay attention to a speakers rated wattage, means little. Pay more attention to 2 things. If it's a 8 ohm or 4 ohm rated speaker, and what the efficiency rating is. The higher the efficiency rating is, the easier it will be to drive to higher volume/ SPL'S with x amount of power. The 8 or 4 ohm designation has more to do with speaker design and current needed to power them. Most avr's can not run a 4 ohm speaker continuously hence an amp is needed. There are exceptions of coarse, such as a big tower for example the RTIA9's. They are rated at 8 ohm, but have lots of bigger drivers and it takes some good power to move those drivers in and out. Very basic description I just gave, but couple that with what you now know about a receivers power specs, and I'm confident you can decide your path.We are here to help bro, no question is too silly so don't be afraid to ask. Good luck to you.

mode1

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Yes, the general rule is that in order to get better amps with an AVR, you also have to buy all the bells and whistles. The alternative would be the lowest priced model with pre-outs and an external amp.

The low priced AVR with pre-outs and ext amp sounds like a great alternative (I feel silly for not knowing this previously but like I said, I'm completely new to this. Seems like a great recommendation for me since I stated that I wasn't interested in frills). I could potentially spend less $ AND get better sound performance out of the speakers.

So in your opinion, what would be a good selection for a base AVR and a good amp with that RTiA7 5.1 setup? Any disadvantages to running this style setup (lowest priced AVR with ext amp) in regards to sound quality? Obviously it's a bit more complicated setup (hey, little more fun), takes up a bit more space and again, missing out on frills of a more expensive AVR. I guess a big disadvantage for someone with this type of setup would be if the ever planned on going 7.1 they'd have to get a new AVR. I however don't plan on making this jump for a long time so really it would just give me an excuse to get on the latest/greatest AVR anyway, ha ha.

Again, I appreciate your time.

squeeb

Welcome to the Club! What I found out that worked great for me - right, wrong, or indifferent - I would search Craigslist, refurbs, closeouts, heck even my work sale ads. When I found one that I thought would be a good upgrade or would fit my needs better, I would search online for feedback. Of course my best feedback (and timely) would usually come from CP.

My only advice is not to narrow yourself too much. Get your "must haves" like max budget, pre-outs for future amps, min. output, etc., and when you find it - get it and enjoy it.

mdaudioguy

mode1 wrote: »

So in your opinion, what would be a good selection for a base AVR and a good amp with that RTiA7 5.1 setup?

The choices are virtually limitless, especially when you're talking AVR/amp combos. For AVRs, your mainstream choices are Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Harman/Kardon, Onkyo, Marantz, Sony, etc... Amp choices take a little more work, since most major retailers do not carry them. This is where you get creative. Look for Adcom, B&K, Carver, Acurus, Parasound, Emotiva, and others. You could go with anything from 2-5 channels. A lot of recommendations on her for 3-channel amps for HT use, since it's good to amp your center along with your mains, however, with every speaker connected to an external amp, that's one less speaker that your AVR has to push. If you added only a 2-channel amp, your AVR only has to run a center and surrounds, it can do that better than if it had to run all five.

Here's one recommendation:
Pick up a manufacturer refurbished H/K AVR direct from Harman from their e-Bay site - http://stores.ebay.com/Harman-Audio. H/K and RTi speakers blend nicely, IMO. There's not much selection on there now, but that changes. Make sure whatever you buy has pre-outs!

Look hard through CL, e-bay, and audiogon.com (videogon.com as well) for an amp. Another great place to pick one up is here: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?34-For-Sale-(FS)-Classifieds
Keep in mind that a lot of these amps are somewhat expensive when purchased new, however most of the enthusiasts who own them take exceedingly good care of them! And, a well-kept amp lasts a long time. Just be sure to do your research first. Ask here before you purchase. Chances are someone here has had experience with whatever you're considering.

Any disadvantages to running this style setup (lowest priced AVR with ext amp) in regards to sound quality?

Maybe, maybe not. My experience with the Yamaha line has shown me that the sound gets a little more refined as you move up the line. This is evident without using the internal amps, too. My experience has led me to believe that the equipment closer to the source affects your sound slightly more than the amp you use. Ymmv.

I guess a big disadvantage for someone with this type of setup would be if the ever planned on going 7.1 they'd have to get a new AVR.

No, not at all. There are many 7-channel options out there. I think most AVRs today with pre-outs are like to be 7-channel. Consider an AVR that's a couple of years old. You'll still get the current audio decoding capabilities.

Good luck and have fun! :biggrin:

Sherardp

The best balance of power for this new rig would be a Pioneer SC05/25/35. Check those out.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/452281

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-SC-37-Receiver-Refurbished-3D-ICEpower-/170771606453?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item27c2c7ebb5

mode1

mdaudioguy wrote: »

The choices are virtually limitless, especially when you're talking AVR/amp combos. For AVRs, your mainstream choices are Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Harman/Kardon, Onkyo, Marantz, Sony, etc... Amp choices take a little more work, since most major retailers do not carry them. This is where you get creative. Look for Adcom, B&K, Carver, Acurus, Parasound, Emotiva, and others. You could go with anything from 2-5 channels. A lot of recommendations on her for 3-channel amps for HT use, since it's good to amp your center along with your mains, however, with every speaker connected to an external amp, that's one less speaker that your AVR has to push. If you added only a 2-channel amp, your AVR only has to run a center and surrounds, it can do that better than if it had to run all five.

Here's one recommendation:
Pick up a manufacturer refurbished H/K AVR direct from Harman from their e-Bay site - http://stores.ebay.com/Harman-Audio. H/K and RTi speakers blend nicely, IMO. There's not much selection on there now, but that changes. Make sure whatever you buy has pre-outs!

Look hard through CL, e-bay, and audiogon.com (videogon.com as well) for an amp. Another great place to pick one up is here: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?34-For-Sale-(FS)-Classifieds
Keep in mind that a lot of these amps are somewhat expensive when purchased new, however most of the enthusiasts who own them take exceedingly good care of them! And, a well-kept amp lasts a long time. Just be sure to do your research first. Ask here before you purchase. Chances are someone here has had experience with whatever you're considering.


Maybe, maybe not. My experience with the Yamaha line has shown me that the sound gets a little more refined as you move up the line. This is evident without using the internal amps, too. My experience has led me to believe that the equipment closer to the source affects your sound slightly more than the amp you use. Ymmv.

No, not at all. There are many 7-channel options out there. I think most AVRs today with pre-outs are like to be 7-channel. Consider an AVR that's a couple of years old. You'll still get the current audio decoding capabilities.

Good luck and have fun! :biggrin:

Very informative! Thank you for that excellent response (sorry for my delay, busy week). I've been looking around a bit. Anyone have thoughts on this as a potential setup:

Front RTi A9
Center CSi A6
Rear FXi A6
Sub DSW Pro 600
Yamaha RX-A700 AVR
Emotiva XPA-5 Amp

My dilemma is whether or not the XPA-5 will be enough for all 5 channels (because of the RTiA9s). Should I consider just going with the A7s with this amp and maybe do a XPA-2 and XPA-3 combo if I want to step-up to the A9s?

BTW, my living room is roughly 18x14x8 (how I would setup the 5.1) but the living room is "open" to the dining room which is another 14x14x8 or so. Thanks again everyone.

SDA1C

fastz28 wrote: »

I would go adcom or this amp

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parasound-HCA-2205A-5-Channel-High-Current-Amplifier-THX-Ultra-Certified-Amp-/150750572354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23196f2f42

+1^^

danger boy

Tour2ma wrote: »

^ For HT you can never have too much sub.

:cheesygrin:

chumlie

fastz28 wrote: »

I would go adcom or this amp

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parasound-HCA-2205A-5-Channel-High-Current-Amplifier-THX-Ultra-Certified-Amp-/150750572354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23196f2f42

+2 on that amp.

michael1947

Great amp and will go for at least 1k. How much do you want to spend. Go with the RTI A-9,s...they just look too nice to stop at the A-7's and a lot of what we do is VISUAL. I have had several Yamaha ARV's over the years and like them a lot and still use a RXV-2700 but I have been moving towards the Onkyo line lately. http://www.shoponkyo.com/products_refurb.cfm?specials=1&group_id=1
I picked up a re-furb TXNR-708 a couple of months ago from "club onkyo" for only $330 shipped and it has all of the latest hook-ups. It has a 1 year warranty and pre-outs for my XPA-5 and makes a nice set-up for reasonable cost. Speaking of reasonable cost look for good used stuff as others have mentioned. Something taken out of an active high end HT system because it does not have the latest greatest 3-D or 4000k resolution. Weight matters as the bulk of the weight is in the transformer and more is better and don't be too impressed with claimed watts per channel. I picked up a mint Harmon Kardon 7200 AVR for around $300 that weighs in at 61 pounds and has a transformer the size of a spare tire yet it is only rated at 110 WPC. You could actually run a nice system (not the A-9's) with something like this then tie in a little 2 channel amp to help power things up properly. Also anything in the 5000 series of Denon or the Onkyo 1000 series and up will do the trick. Oh, another item: Size of the driver is not the determining factor in power usage. Vintage speakers typically used large 12" and 15" drivers yet were easy to power. A JBL 4411 was just about at the top heap of the home/studio crowd 30 years ago and if you fed it more than 150 watts you were looking for trouble. More modern systems employing small drivers such as the 7 inchers in the A-9's and the 6.5" in most of the other lines of Polk and most other manufactures I feel is the result of control of the materials from the basket to the voice coil. With smaller drivers made of exquisite material you can really spank them hard and still keep things in control and make more pure consistent sound. So...Big heavy amps, small tight drivers = big smiles.

mdaudioguy

mode1 wrote: »

Very informative! Thank you for that excellent response (sorry for my delay, busy week). I've been looking around a bit. Anyone have thoughts on this as a potential setup:

Front RTi A9
Center CSi A6
Rear FXi A6
Sub DSW Pro 600
Yamaha RX-A700 AVR
Emotiva XPA-5 Amp

My dilemma is whether or not the XPA-5 will be enough for all 5 channels (because of the RTiA9s). Should I consider just going with the A7s with this amp and maybe do a XPA-2 and XPA-3 combo if I want to step-up to the A9s?

I once owned that same amp combo, but sold it. Replaced it with a nice, pre-owned 5-channel, with no regrets whatsoever. The amp recommendation above seems solid.

mode1

michael1947 wrote: »

Great amp and will go for at least 1k. How much do you want to spend. Go with the RTI A-9,s...they just look too nice to stop at the A-7's and a lot of what we do is VISUAL. I have had several Yamaha ARV's over the years and like them a lot and still use a RXV-2700 but I have been moving towards the Onkyo line lately. http://www.shoponkyo.com/products_refurb.cfm?specials=1&group_id=1
I picked up a re-furb TXNR-708 a couple of months ago from "club onkyo" for only $330 shipped and it has all of the latest hook-ups. It has a 1 year warranty and pre-outs for my XPA-5 and makes a nice set-up for reasonable cost. Speaking of reasonable cost look for good used stuff as others have mentioned. Something taken out of an active high end HT system because it does not have the latest greatest 3-D or 4000k resolution. Weight matters as the bulk of the weight is in the transformer and more is better and don't be too impressed with claimed watts per channel. I picked up a mint Harmon Kardon 7200 AVR for around $300 that weighs in at 61 pounds and has a transformer the size of a spare tire yet it is only rated at 110 WPC. You could actually run a nice system (not the A-9's) with something like this then tie in a little 2 channel amp to help power things up properly. Also anything in the 5000 series of Denon or the Onkyo 1000 series and up will do the trick. Oh, another item: Size of the driver is not the determining factor in power usage. Vintage speakers typically used large 12" and 15" drivers yet were easy to power. A JBL 4411 was just about at the top heap of the home/studio crowd 30 years ago and if you fed it more than 150 watts you were looking for trouble. More modern systems employing small drivers such as the 7 inchers in the A-9's and the 6.5" in most of the other lines of Polk and most other manufactures I feel is the result of control of the materials from the basket to the voice coil. With smaller drivers made of exquisite material you can really spank them hard and still keep things in control and make more pure consistent sound. So...Big heavy amps, small tight drivers = big smiles.

That makes sense about the new speakers doing more with less size...but being more power hungry (a good analogy may be a new car engine...less displacement, more power). I'll go with your recommendation on checking out Denon and Onkyo.

mode1

fastz28 wrote: »

I would go adcom or this amp

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parasound-HCA-2205A-5-Channel-High-Current-Amplifier-THX-Ultra-Certified-Amp-/150750572354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23196f2f42

Thanks for mentioning adcom, seems like real nice equipment. Not sure if it fits into my budget but maybe? Ha ha thanks.

rengnath

I was on a tight budget and ended up going with an RX-A800. Its an older model Adventage without the networking capabilities but it isnt discontinued yet. I got it NIB shipped off eBay for $445. My brother just picked an RX-A800 up from American TV for $499 on sale.

IMO, for being an entry-level receiver, it's a great buy. My only gripe about the Adventage line is the reception for FM radio sucks (although there is a firmware update that supposed to fix it) and the onscreen menu gets a little irritating sometimes.

For an amp, I would recommend finding a nice 3 channel to start. My biggest regret was jumping on a 2 channel for my fronts and then wanting more power for my center. I personally wouldnt worry about amping the rears right away if money is concern. The AVR should power the 2 rear channels fine for HT, and you can always add another amp later. I would let my ears be the judge after I get everything set up.

mode1

rengnath wrote: »

I was on a tight budget and ended up going with an RX-A800. Its an older model Adventage without the networking capabilities but it isnt discontinued yet. I got it NIB shipped off eBay for $445. My brother just picked an RX-A800 up from American TV for $499 on sale.

IMO, for being an entry-level receiver, it's a great buy. My only gripe about the Adventage line is the reception for FM radio sucks (although there is a firmware update that supposed to fix it) and the onscreen menu gets a little irritating sometimes.

For an amp, I would recommend finding a nice 3 channel to start. My biggest regret was jumping on a 2 channel for my fronts and then wanting more power for my center. I personally wouldnt worry about amping the rears right away if money is concern. The AVR should power the 2 rear channels fine for HT, and you can always add another amp later. I would let my ears be the judge after I get everything set up.

Thanks for sharing. I was actually wondering about the center being too weak if I just went with a 2 channel... and you've confirmed that this is a valid concern. IMO, nothing worse than watching a movie with a weak center. "What did they say?"

hmmm...
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A700-7-1-Channel-Audio-Receiver/dp/B003XDU49S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1328408022&sr=8-2