Tube rollin advice-Rogue Cronus Magnum

charley95
charley95 Posts: 908
edited February 2012 in 2 Channel Audio
I purchased a new Magnum back in Feb. and thinking of trying some RCA cleartops.

The unit has the issued 4-EH kt90's 3-12au7's with no brand on them and, 2 12ax7's no markings on these either.
According to Rogue the 12au7 preamp tube is the most important to replace. Any thoughts or advice as to what might be a good suggestion to try? I'm driving un-modded 2.3's and have an old basic Denon cdp. If I were to try the RCA's, what difference might I hear?

Thanks for any advice!

Crossover upgrade w/ gmpods boards will be done in the distant future.
Post edited by charley95 on
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2012
    Love Rogue gear. When I owned the non-Magnum version of this amp, I bought a tube package from the Tube Store: http://thetubestore.com/rogue-cronus.html

    I currently use a pair of Quicksilver amps and have the premium tube package selected by the Tube Store. Awesome. Way better than the stock tubes.
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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited January 2012
    Go here and scroll down until you see the table labeled "Can't decide which 12AU7 to buy?" https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm

    That should help you.

    Clear tops can be good but there are so many others to try as well.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
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  • charley95
    charley95 Posts: 908
    edited January 2012
    Thanks guys!

    Would love to hear H9 chime in on this!
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited January 2012
    You might want to consider RCA blackplates,,and if you can find/afford em,,Brimar's.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,315
    edited January 2012
    Charley,I have the stock EH-90's that came with the Magnum. I currently have a pair of PSVANE 12AX7's, a very good tube. I also have a trio of Mullard CV4003's (12AU7) that I roll in and out with the RCA's that came with the amp.

    Tube preference is so subjective it's difficult to recommend a do-it-all tube that will have "your" sound. There are a ton of 12AX7 and 12AU7 varients out there, a lot of them very reasonably priced.

    Have you tried any EL-34 output tubes? I have a quad of "Winged C" Svetlana that I change out every now and then, love that buttery midrange that the 34's put out. Would like to try some Gold Lion some day.
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  • charley95
    charley95 Posts: 908
    edited February 2012
    Thanks guys! I'll probably order some clear-tops and try those for now.
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  • toucanet
    toucanet Posts: 580
    edited February 2012
    It would not be a bad idea to contact Mark O'Brien at Rogue Audio for tube recommendations as well.

    He is extremely helpful.

    Good luck!
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited February 2012
    I would also consider some 7316's. They are extremely nice 12AU7 varients. I would also recommend the earlier (1950's) Mullard long plates 12AU7's.

    If you are really set on RCA clear tops, I have a number of them that I will sell for pretty cheap. If interested, PM me.

    RCA clear tops are good, but there are definately better tubes without a doubt (IMO, of course).

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited February 2012
    +1 on the 7316s in particular the D getters.

    It might have been Headrott that recommended them to me a while back.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited February 2012
    Yep, just about any 7316 is good, but you are right about the D-getters. Those D-getters in the Amperex tubes (and tubes in general) are very nice. They are just extremely hard to find. Plus they go for even more money than the "halo-getters". Even the "halo-getters" are very nice though.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • charley95
    charley95 Posts: 908
    edited February 2012
    I'm waiting to get my listening room painted and carpeted before I set my system back up. I will probably consider your offer on the RCA's. If you could PM me with what you have and what you want for them I would appriciate it. Are the Mullards pretty pricey?
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    12AU7's and Variants

    SYLVANIA JAN CHS & JHS 12AU7 Long Black Plates 1950's (square getters)

    RAYTHEON JAN CRP 5814A Windmill Getter Gray Plates (early 60's - A very rare one!! Just like the triple mica version, with their side wings and vertically aligned three small holes, these tubes have very unusual and robust plate construction.)

    RAYTHEON JAN CRP 5814 Black Plates & JAN CRP 5814 Triple Mica Black Plates (Military spec tube made in the 1950's. One of the most sought after American 12AU7 variant together with the CBS-Hytron 5814s. Tube rollers find their sonics very similar too. All tubes have square getters on the top.)

    RCA JRC 5814A/WA and 6189 Black Plates (The military spec tube 5814 was developed by RCA around 1950 as a lower distortion, noise and microphonics 12AU7)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    I have found the SED Winged "C" El34's to be excellent, but the price has sky rocketed in the past year. There is a rumor they are not being made at this time as the Petersburg plant in Russia is shutdown. I haven't been able to confirm.

    Another great tube, and inexpensive is the JJ E34L. Very solid bottom end, thick glass, modeled after the Gold Lion KT77, nice mid's and shimmering highs. For the cost difference now between these and the Winged "C"s these are my go to. I have several pairs of Winged "C"s already. The original Tesla's are very nice as well, but prices keep creeping up on those too.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • charley95
    charley95 Posts: 908
    edited February 2012
    Thanks H9! I always enjoy reading your thoughts. I'm sure I'll have a small fortune invested in tubes and X-over upgrades in the future.
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited February 2012
    charley95 wrote: »
    I'm waiting to get my listening room painted and carpeted before I set my system back up. I will probably consider your offer on the RCA's. If you could PM me with what you have and what you want for them I would appriciate it. Are the Mullards pretty pricey?

    Sending a PM. The Mullards are pretty pricey because they are relatively rare and they sound great. Usually around $110.00 a pair, but are worth it IMO. They are warm, smooth, have a large soundstage and make vocals really shine. They are not the end all be all in detail, but are very detailed. I highly recommend them. As I said, the Amperex 7316's are also very good. Better than the Mullards they are more detailed and not quite as warm sounding. They also have outstanding vocal reproduction! Overall just fantastic sounding throughout the sound spectrum. Absolutely one of the best 12AU7's and varients available.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,315
    edited February 2012
    charley95 wrote: »
    Thanks H9! I always enjoy reading your thoughts. I'm sure I'll have a small fortune invested in tubes and X-over upgrades in the future.

    He he,One of the hazards of hanging around Club Polk
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  • toucanet
    toucanet Posts: 580
    edited February 2012
    $1,600.00 for the Hera II premium tubes... OUCH!
    http://thetubestore.com/rogue-hera.html
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    Love Rogue gear. When I owned the non-Magnum version of this amp, I bought a tube package from the Tube Store: http://thetubestore.com/rogue-cronus.html

    I currently use a pair of Quicksilver amps and have the premium tube package selected by the Tube Store. Awesome. Way better than the stock tubes.
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  • charley95
    charley95 Posts: 908
    edited February 2012
    PM sent!
    headrott wrote: »
    Sending a PM. The Mullards are pretty pricey because they are relatively rare and they sound great. Usually around $110.00 a pair, but are worth it IMO. They are warm, smooth, have a large soundstage and make vocals really shine. They are not the end all be all in detail, but are very detailed. I highly recommend them. As I said, the Amperex 7316's are also very good. Better than the Mullards they are more detailed and not quite as warm sounding. They also have outstanding vocal reproduction! Overall just fantastic sounding throughout the sound spectrum. Absolutely one of the best 12AU7's and varients available.

    Greg
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited February 2012
    charley95 wrote: »
    PM sent!

    Not sure what happened, but I didn't recieve it.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • charley95
    charley95 Posts: 908
    edited February 2012
    Keep getting errors in the PM section. Can you just shoot me an e-mail.

    Thanks!
    sheridandunbar@comcast.net

    headrott wrote: »
    Not sure what happened, but I didn't recieve it.

    Greg
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited February 2012
    Amperex Bugle Boy or Phillips Holland PQ 12AU7 D getters or CBS Hytron 5814's are very good. 1962 or earlier Amperex Holland 7316's are going to be tough to beat.Siemens 12AU7 Nickel plates are also very good. all of the tubes i mentioned are very rare and very expensive. does anyone near you have any nice 12AU7's that you can try in your amp because it can save you a lot of time,money and effort.good luck....WCW III
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • charley95
    charley95 Posts: 908
    edited February 2012
    I just purchased a pair of clear tops from headrott. I'll start with those when I get my system up and running. Thanks for your input!
    W WALDECKER wrote: »
    Amperex Bugle Boy or Phillips Holland PQ 12AU7 D getters or CBS Hytron 5814's are very good. 1962 or earlier Amperex Holland 7316's are going to be tough to beat.Siemens 12AU7 Nickel plates are also very good. all of the tubes i mentioned are very rare and very expensive. does anyone near you have any nice 12AU7's that you can try in your amp because it can save you a lot of time,money and effort.good luck....WCW III
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