Is there a such thing as too much power?

rengnath

Hey everyone,

So I finally got my B&K back from the shop, and its all fixed and ready to go. I was using the Parasound in its place while it was gone, but not that the B&K is back I am running the Parasound to the center in mono. I backed off the level of the center to -10 on my AVR (mains set to 0) and while watching movies, the center is definitely reproducing everything very nice. I almost think it might be too loud, but if it would be any less I wouldn't be able to hear the voices. The question is; is 400w RMS too much power for a center channel such as the cs400i? The 400i is rated at 250w max. I know the HCA-1000A is definitely overkill, but to find a HCA-750 or a 3 channel B&K ST3140 and sell one or both of these just seems like a hassle. Just looking for some opinions here.

Thanks

tonyb

No, you won't hurt it, but why are you running it in mono ? One channel is more than enough

rengnath

I feel like running just one channel would be a waste. Lol. Would it be "better" to just run one channel to it?

tonyb

Better ?? I dunno....wouldn't hurt to try. Sometimes amps when put into mono....sometimes mind you, can sound alittle harsh on the upper frequencies.

mhardy6647

I'm the wrong person to ask :-P

With speakers like those, though... there probably is no such thing as "too much power".

falconcry72

is 400w RMS too much power for a center channel such as the cs400i?

Just because the amp is rated at 400 watts doesn't mean you're actually giving the speaker that much power. Most of the time, you're probably only giving it a handful of watts.

Just run it off one channel, not bridged, it will sound better.

I almost think it might be too loud, but if it would be any less I wouldn't be able to hear the voices.

Huh? Which is it? Too loud, too quite, or perfect???

I backed off the level of the center to -10 on my AVR

Is -10 the minimum level? If so, I'd be surprised if that was the perfect level to match the fronts. Just another reason to run the center off one channel of the amp instead of bridged.

...to find a HCA-750 or a 3 channel B&K ST3140 and sell one or both of these just seems like a hassle.

Do it.

There are differing gain and sound character issues between different amps. It's best to have the same type amplification on the front 3.

I could have sold both those amps in the time it took me to write this response.



Good luck, and have fun!:biggrin:

tonyb

I'm still wondering how the center can be too loud and at the same time voices are too low. Sometimes movies are just mixed that way. I do agree though that -10 seems a tad over the top for that center.

Another thought, is you can try running no center, or as it's called "phantom", and let the front left and right handle the voices. Wouldn't hurt to try anyway.

falconcry72

tonyb wrote: »

...I do agree though that -10 seems a tad over the top for that center...

I wasn't saying that -10 is over the top. I was saying that I know that on some receivers -10 is the minimum setting, and if that's true on rengnath's receiver, it would be quite a coincidence for the the absolute minimum setting of his receiver to also be the perfect level to match his fronts.

tonyb

Thats what I meant bro.....over the top as in way too low to match the fronts set at 0.

falconcry72

tonyb wrote: »

Thats what I meant bro.....over the top as in way too low to match the fronts set at 0.

lol. no. I'm not saying it's too low; I'm saying it's too even of a number.

SDA1C

rengnath wrote: »

Hey everyone,

So I finally got my B&K back from the shop, and its all fixed and ready to go. I was using the Parasound in its place while it was gone, but not that the B&K is back I am running the Parasound to the center in mono. I backed off the level of the center to -10 on my AVR (mains set to 0) and while watching movies, the center is definitely reproducing everything very nice. I almost think it might be too loud, but if it would be any less I wouldn't be able to hear the voices. The question is; is 400w RMS too much power for a center channel such as the cs400i? The 400i is rated at 250w max. I know the HCA-1000A is definitely overkill, but to find a HCA-750 or a 3 channel B&K ST3140 and sell one or both of these just seems like a hassle. Just looking for some opinions here.

Thanks

I haven't heard you say you tried to drive your center with just the avr.? and amp the fronts? Not a possibility?

leroyjr1

Do you have a spl meter? Curious as to what level difference is between the center and fronts. That's a big difference -10 (center) to 0 (fronts).

If you need any help calibrating your system or need a spl meter let me know I'm not to far from you.

rengnath

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. -10 is the minimum on the avr, and any higher and the center will drown out everything else. The voices are perfect, but background noise coming through the center will sometimes be too loud. I only hooked the center up to the avr when I first picked up the 400i, but never watched an entire movie. I used to run a 245i. When I did have the 400i hooked up to the reciever, the volumes of the center and fronts seemed closer. Ill try running the center off of one channel on the Parasound tonight. I should be able to sell the Parasound for enough to get very close to a B&K ST3140, so Ill also keep that in mind.

rengnath

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Do you have a spl meter? Curious as to what level difference is between the center and fronts. That's a big difference -10 (center) to 0 (fronts).

If you need any help calibrating your system or need a spl meter let me know I'm not to far from you.

Thanks Leroy.

I thought there was an SPL meter on Amazon for about $30? I could always pick one up. I havent run YPAO yet on the system. I've just been getting everything ready for the new house, I haven't gotten to stuck on calibrating it to the room its in now. Right now its in a 12'x12' room, and the system will be going in a 15'x25' rec room. It will be going on one half of the room.

leroyjr1

Let me know if you decide to sell the parasound. What shape is it in?

rengnath

Its a conservative 8/10. The entire case is in perfect shape, and the only wear on the face plate is along the top edge but its very minor. It has the rack mounting holes on the faceplate with the original plugs, but has never been mounted. My brother ended up buying it along with another 1000A in plans to run each in mono to A9's, but he ended up going with Klipsh RF-83s which are much more efficient so I took one off his hands for what he paid for it. Let me do some searching and see if I can find another B&K.

falconcry72

rengnath wrote: »

...-10 is the minimum on the avr, and any higher and the center will drown out everything else.

That's what I thought. There's no way that it's at the right level.

Ill try running the center off of one channel on the Parasound tonight.

Good idea.

My brother ended up buying it along with another 1000A in plans to run each in mono...

He would have been better off passively bi-amping, either vertically or horizontally. Those amps like to be in stereo, not mono.

deronb1

Is there such a thing as too much beer?

leroyjr1

deronb1 wrote: »

Is there such a thing as too much beer?

Yep....

falconcry72

deronb1 wrote: »

Is there such a thing as too much beer?

Yes. I find that answer more often than I'd like...

rengnath

falconcry72 wrote: »

Good idea.

It's not like the spare channel will go to waste. My dad is running in ceiling speakers in the rec room (8xRC60i, from a Niles speaker selector switch) so instead of running the power off the AVR, I can run it off that spare 125w channel.

On a side note, I dont think it will really matter. I'm interested to see how the speakers will sound. He ran some of the lengths up to 80 ft, on 22awg wire and thats alot of speaker to power.

falconcry72 wrote: »

He would have been better off passively bi-amping, either vertically or horizontally. Those amps like to be in stereo, not mono.

Thats what I thought, only to even out the power as well. The amps came from seperate sellers, so if one was lagging behind in power behind the other, it could be covered up by bi-amping.

On that note, just to see what happens, should I bi-amp my center and see if it sounds better? The only reason why I ran in mono was because I read that bi-amping isnt always a good idea on a speaker because the highs are less power hungry than the mids.

Sorry for all the noob questions, I am pretty new to the amp world :biggrin:

rengnath

deronb1 wrote: »

Is there such a thing as too much beer?

I'd like to think not, but normally around 8am when I have to get up for work it hits me that there is a such thing.

falconcry72

rengnath wrote: »

It's not like the spare channel will go to waste. :

Don't worry about it "going to waste". It will sound better. Period.

Thats what I thought, only to even out the power as well.

That's a consideration, but not what I meant. The main point here is that those amps work better in stereo. Period.

should I bi-amp my center and see if it sounds better?

Sure, give it a whirl! It will no doubt sound better than running the amp in mono. Just get a y-splitter to send the center channel signal to both sides of the amp.

The only reason why I ran in mono was because I read that bi-amping isnt always a good idea on a speaker because the highs are less power hungry than the mids.

That's true, but it's irrelevant in your application. Run the amp in stereo. Period.


Have I said "period" enough in this post?:cheesygrin:

rengnath

falconcry72 wrote: »

Have I said "period" enough in this post?:cheesygrin:

Ok, I think I got it. Thanks for your help Falconcry! No more running the Parasound in mono for me :evil:

tonyb

The way you describe the sound, it seems as though the fronts maybe set to -10 and the center at 0. Just thought you should double check is all. That would produce what your describing.

falconcry72

tonyb wrote: »

The way you describe the sound, it seems as though the fronts maybe set to -10 and the center at 0. Just thought you should double check is all. That would produce what your describing.

It's because that Parasound is in mono. Its gain slope is going to vary greatly from the BK in stereo.

rengnath

Double checked and its the center set to -10. Yamaha runs all the settings on your tv screen. Sometimes its a nice feature, but I still like the oldschool menu on the receiver display.