Capacitor choice

heiney9
heiney9 Posts: 25,197
edited January 2012 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
Looking for a relatively inexpensive output coupling cap to use in a dac.

Much of my gear has Auricaps for coupling caps, I really like the Auricap line but I want to try something different.

Between the Obligatto Gold series ($21/a piece) or

Clarity ESA ($11/a piece)

or other suggestions.

The Clarity is almost a drop in for size, the Obligatto is going to be a challenge since it's physically larger and space is limited.

H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    It's going where the Bennic's are in this photo

    da15102sud4.jpg
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2012
    Just about anything would be an upgrade, including some audio grade electrolytic caps.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    ELNA Silmic's are audio grade electrolytics, aren't they?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,572
    edited January 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    ELNA Silmic's are audio grade electrolytics, aren't they?

    yes they are it is what i used in my Sony es player completely recap. They sound a TON better that the old Elna Duorex'es that were in it. Have you not had good luck with the Clarity before? Why not just used the now? When i was asking questions about my recap Jesse had sent me a ling to a site and the Silmics were in the top three for great sound and the top Blackgate is no longer made. The other I think was a Nichicon if i remember right.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    I know there are a lot of fans for the Obliggato's here on the forum and I have been trying to find something to use them in. They are just so dang big!! The Clarity ESA 250v will fit in the stock space with out issues. Since space is tight, that's what I've decided to use. I need to revist the output coupling caps in my Dared Pre, maybe the ESA's will fit there too.

    This Dac comes stock with ELNA Silmics electrolytics, so I think I'm good there.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • thejck
    thejck Posts: 849
    edited January 2012
    what would you get by upgrading the caps? Is that all you would want to upgrade in a DAC?
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    thejck wrote: »
    what would you get by upgrading the caps? Is that all you would want to upgrade in a DAC?

    Because the offending caps are in the final output stage in the signal path. A better, more refined cap should yield some sonic improvements. Looking to lessen the top end a bit and make it a little more laid back.

    The caps they use are typically budget caps, this is one area to help improve overall presentation without getting too crazy.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2012
    Face wrote: »
    Just about anything would be an upgrade, including some audio grade electrolytic caps.
    I was referring to the Bennics.

    I haven't tried Obbligatos in line level electronics, only speakers...so I can't help you there. I say you cut a hole in the top and install a pair of MR's. :D
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    Face wrote: »
    I was referring to the Bennics.

    I haven't tried Obbligatos in line level electronics, only speakers...so I can't help you there. I say you cut a hole in the top and install a pair of MR's. :D

    Ah, I see so you meant even audio grade electrolytics in the place of the Bennics.

    I am just about 100% sure I'm going with the Clarity ESA's simply because I know they fit. It's very tight in those spots and I don't feel like jury-rigging something. I am going to measure tonight and get a good visual before I decide. The ESA's are 1/2 the cost as well, and as always, the office rig is about maximizing cost vs. performance. Plus, this rig could use a little less "truth" and little more "darkness" as the ESA's tend to be a tad on the dark side from what I've read.

    Thanks Face

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    Anyone know who carries 250v Clarity ESA's in the US? Not thrilled with Parts Connexion lately.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2012
    Nope, unfortunately they're the only ones I'm aware of. I tend to use other vendors whenever possible too.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2012
    These are probably above your budget, but keep them in mind, they have a sound I believe you would enjoy: http://www.soniccraft.com/products/capacitors/film/jupiter_htflat.htm
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    What about a company called HiFi Collective in England? I could buy from them. Even with the pound conversion they are cheaper. I can't imagine shipping will be a whole lot more. They carry a lot of brands all in one place?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2012
    I've heard about others using them but haven't myself. Ask for a shipping quote, can't hurt.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,507
    edited January 2012
    Brock, what about Madisound Speakers in WI? Not sure if they have the ESA values you need. Thought about Mundorf M-Caps? I was pleased with them in the Music Hall DAC tube output side.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Brock, what about Madisound Speakers in WI? Not sure if they have the ESA values you need. Thought about Mundorf M-Caps? I was pleased with them in the Music Hall DAC tube output side.

    Rich, Madisound only carries the 650v ESA's and they are too large to fit where I need them. Mundorf's have the same issue of being too large and they are spendy for this project. If it was for the main rig components, no problem on cost.

    I'm going to make a matrix of the different caps I'm considering both on size and cost. Still, the 250v ESA's seem like a slam dunk in both area's and they get high marks for performance. I also need to take an inventory of what I need for other projects as I'd prefer to pay shipping just once. Contemplating a recap on the RTi38's as well, but that gets spendy too if you're not careful. Plus they bypassed the tweeter and finding a stock 6.2uF cap isn't easy. Clarity SA and Dayton 1% Metalized Poly's come in the value I need in order to not use a bypass cap. I also would like to get some output coupling caps to replace (4) Carli caps in the Dared. Real estate in there is obnoxiously tight.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2012
    Brock, does Madisound carry the 250V Clarity Cap ESA's? I know they carry the 630V ones in certain values, but could only find a few in the 250V. You could e-mail them and see if they have the value you need.

    Greg

    Edit: I see someone else already suggested it a little bit ago. Nevermind. Sorry for the wasted reply.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2012
    Actually Brock, Madisound lists a 100uF 250V Clarity Cap ESA cap on their page. Not sure if they have others but are not listed? You may want to contact them to be sure. Here's a link to the page:

    http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/esa-cap-250vdc/

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,507
    edited January 2012
    See, Greg believes me!:biggrin: I knew they didn't have much of a selection. But after dealing with PC, I'm looking everywhere else to buy stuff.

    Brock, I went with the MKP series of M-Caps. 3.3uf / 250V were a little over $4 each.

    (Still waiting for the DAC board Greg).
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    Hey Rich, I sort of missed those Mundorf MKP. I guess they are in the running as well.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • lanchile
    lanchile Posts: 560
    edited January 2012
    My vote goes to Sonicap!!! They are excellent caps and affordable too. I always use them in my diy amps for the inputs.
    Make it simple...Make it better!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    Sonicaps are nice, I've used them in speakers, again I think I just want to try something I haven't tried before. Thanks for the suggestion

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    Just received an email from Madisound, they do not and will not carry most of the ESA 250v line. I am in need of 4.7uF ESA 250v and they can't/won't special order them. So I was at DIYCable.com and they carry the Clarity APW caps. They are really inexpensive and get good ratings so I bought them for the high pass for the RT25i's and RTi38's and I thought WTH, might as well get the 4.7uF 160v for the Keces DA-151. It cost me an extra $5. I'll try them and see. If I don't like the results I'll either spring for the Clarity ESA or Mundorf MKP.

    It sort of pisses me off that you can't get the 250v ESA line from a US distributor, same goes for the Mundorf's. Although I didn't look to see if Percy Audio carries these Mundorfs.

    What I'll probably do is cut the leads long on the intalled caps and use alligator clips so I don't have to constantly solder/unsolder multiple caps. Any other ideas for rolling caps?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2012
    They are a bit more, but Jantzen Superior Z-caps are great and I've used them in a few projects; they do have a 4.7uF 800v.

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=027-490
    Jake
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2012
    The current caps are 19mm X 36mm and very little room for anything larger. Those above are 30mm X 56mm. Circumference not so much the problem as the length.

    Thanks for the suggestion. I may use them in something else.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2012
    Just be sure to skip over the Z-Standard line.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2012
    Agreed. The Z-cap Superior, Silver, and Gold/Silver are all great.
    Jake
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