Lesson learned: Voice matching a center not all that important

Syndil

My current home theater system utilizes Infinity Overture 1s for the L/R channels. Recently I acquired an Infinity CC-3 center channel to replace the Polk CS350-LS I had been using, since the CC-3 uses the same drivers and tweeter as the Overtures. The only difference between the CC-3 and the Overture 1 is that it lacks the Overture 1's 8" powered woofer. Never really had a problem with the CS350-LS, but the CC-3 was supposed to be a very good center channel, and it voice matched my mains.

Today I have removed the CC-3 and boxed it back up, putting the CS350-LS back in my system. I had used the CC-3 for several months, constantly tweaking the settings on the Outlaw pre-amp and the tone controls on the speaker itself trying to get it to sound right, and finally I just threw in the towel. I've had the CS350-LS back in service for only an hour or two now and it's so much better than the CC-3, voice matching be damned.

I really enjoyed the look of the CC-3 in my system, with its matching grill and Infinity logo, and for the longest time I was sure that I was simply not finding the right settings to get it to blend properly into my system. And who knows, maybe that is still the case, even after months of trying. But with listening to the CS350 now, all I can think is, so what? I'm done messing with it. If I can find an Overture 1CC, I may give that a shot just for grins since it is the exact same speaker as my mains. But if not, no big loss. My CS350-LS isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

tonyb

At least you did the right thing, you let your ears be the final judge. I always say nothing in audio is written in stone....well, maybe a few things, but anyway, glad you like it. That polk center is no slouch thats for sure. You'd have to spend some coin to do better.

NewHTguy

Interesting. Would not have guessed that but as Tonyb said, your ears are what matter.

jbooker82

Maybe you just preferred the Polk speaker. Thought about canning the two infinity L&R's for a set of Polks?

Syndil

I did a lot of auditioning before I settled on the Overture 1s. They are terrific speakers. The honeymoon is not over, so to speak, so I am not motivated to go that route. I do enjoy my RT12s and wish I had room for them in my home theater setup, but I don't. But comparing my RT12s to my Overture 1s... It's a toss-up. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. But the decision is made for me since I simply don't have the space for floorstandings in my home theater.

I will admit it is a bit of a love/hate relationship with the Overture 1s. I love their sound and I am very glad they have the powered woofer in them as they produce much more usable bass than most bookshelves I have compared them to, but I do not like how they automatically turn themselves off with an audible relay click if they do not detect an audio signal. Many times I hear them click themselves off simply because I have the volume turned down low. But it is hard to argue against usable bass down to 35Hz from a bookshelf. The Outlaw 990's auto configuration confirmed this range by setting the crossover for my Overtures at 40Hz. And of course the rest of the speaker is great, too. These were $1,100 speakers when new. Not sure Polk has anything that would compare, and certainly it would require an outlay of cash for which I would have no motivation to part with.

As for the CC-3... I will be selling it. Voice-matched or not, the CS350-LS just sounds right in my system. If I had to put my finger on it, I think the problem with the CC-3 was that it just did not have enough depth to it. The outlaw set the crossover for the CC-3 at 80Hz, as opposed to 60Hz for the CS350. I know bass is not the end-all be-all and I don't mean to focus entirely on that, but in the case of the center channel, I think the extra depth provided by the center channel speaker itself made voices sound much more natural. No matter how much I fiddled with the CC-3, it just sounded a bit too hollow.

VR3

I find center channels are overpriced and generally a big waste of money...

I will never own another center channel for as long as I am into audio...

Bookshelves 100 percent and I also feel that voice matching is fairly unimportant in a home theater environment...

Good on you!

F1nut

Talk about a misleading title.

BlueFox

Talk about a misleading title.

Perhaps a more appropriate title is "Some centers work better than others".

Personally, I never really understood the "voice matching" part since 99% of the time the voice is from the center, not the L/R fronts. From a personal perspective, I replaced my LSiC with a PSB Synchrony One center, and it 'dropped' right in with the LSi15s in the front. Since it too is 4 ohms I didn't have to adjust the AVR settings as they measured the same with the PSB as with the LSiC. On the other hand, it did open up the center sound stage, and make it fuller. Also, I never notice any dialog mismatch between the three speakers.

Syndil

The term voice-matching does not refer to actual dialog, but to the drivers having the same tonal quality, i.e. being the same or from the same family from the same manufacturer. Perhaps the title was confusing since center channels are used for dialog. I should have said timbre-matching instead of voice-matching.

tonyb

There is something to be said for a timbre matched front 3, it does sound more seemless than if you had an oddball center. Some can notice the difference better than others, and some, like myself, prefer no center at all. Having matched tweets across the front is ideal, but not written in stone either.
As long as it gells well for your ears, cool, run with it. No need to spend more coin if your happy. Sometimes you have to just sit back and enjoy your system without fretting over the small stuff.

Conradicles

tonyb wrote: »

Sometimes you have to just sit back and enjoy your system without fretting over the small stuff.

Bingo. Well said Tony.

Tankman

@tonyb, Thanks for your post on this.A very good read.

Syndil

tonyb wrote: »

There is something to be said for a timbre matched front 3, it does sound more seemless than if you had an oddball center. Some can notice the difference better than others, and some, like myself, prefer no center at all. Having matched tweets across the front is ideal, but not written in stone either.

I agree in theory that timbre-matching should be ideal, which is exactly why I purchased the CC-3. But I tested it and, at least to my ears, proved that theory wrong. The CS350-LS blends much better into my system than a speaker made from the same manufacturer using the same drivers as my mains. However if I do see an Overture 1CC ever go up for sale, I will absolutely snag it and test the theory again. Should have bought one when I purchased the mains, but at the time, my RT12s were intended for HT duty, and the Infinitys were going to be for music listening in the bedroom. Now their roles are reversed, and I've got a Polk sub and a Polk center paired with Infinity mains in the home theater.

I do agree though, that regardless of the center speaker, I prefer no center at all when listening to a source that has not been given a 5.1 mix. Based on all examples I have heard so far, I despise upsampling/upmixing modes. Currently having to wrestle with my Outlaw 990's TV input since it defaults to Dolby Pro Logic II: Movie when switching to a stereo channel and can't find a way to get it to just leave it stereo.

Lietuvis91

In this specific case, matching may not have been important, for whatever reason. And through my playing around with different speakers I have come across a few cases where two different brands blended in pretty darn well. But I also found that this is not the norm, and is more of an exception. Typically, matching the front 3 yields a pretty meaningful improvement in the overall sound quality.

BeefJerky

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

In this specific case, matching may not have been important, for whatever reason. And through my playing around with different speakers I have come across a few cases where two different brands blended in pretty darn well. But I also found that this is not the norm, and is more of an exception. Typically, matching the front 3 yields a pretty meaningful improvement in the overall sound quality.

Agreed. However, even speakers from the same manufacturer in the same series can be an issue with drivers that don't match. Case in point:
I started with a set of R50's for fronts, and the "matching" CSR center channel. The center channel had a different tweeter and the difference was very noticeable for both music and HT. I switched it out for the CSM center which had a matching tweeter, and the difference was night and day; the front stage was now seamless.

I personally have never heard a mismatched front stage the sounded right. Interestingly enough, one of the closest matching mismatched sets I've heard consisted of the following: a pair of recent 4-way 15" KLH speakers with dome tweeters and an RCA center with linaeum tweeter. This is something that never should come close to matching, yet it wasn't awful, at least for HT.

At any rate, my experience says that voice/timbre matching is important for the front stage, and I will always recommend that setup. The surrounds are less critical, but I can still hear that difference so I prefer and recommend them to be voice/timbre matched to the front stage.

tonyb

No shame in running a mismatched center guys, if the OP says it's cool, who are we to say differently. Lets not forget we all hear things differently too. Both sides of the coin have merit, the OP just prefers one side is all.