Lsi9 vs Rti/M Towers

WagBoss

How do a pair of Lsi9's compare to polk's high to mid-range towers such as rti a5, a7, a9, and to older speakers such as monitor 70's. How do they compare to rti a3? For music and movie's, like 50/50. I assume that a7, a9 will go much lower and louder because of the subwoofers and the power range, but obviously you need a nice external amplifier to get that extra power.

Using Lsi9's as fronts for home theatre, would it be that noticeable if I used an un-matched center such as a cs10 or something like that.

If hooked up lsi9's to a yamaha rx-v671, the lsi9's would not have any problem correct? The lsi9's are 4 ohm impedance, does that matter? They would just use more power since they are 4 ohm instead of 8 ohm, correct? Is there something you have to change on the receiver to use 4 ohms? Is it possible to use 4 ohm fronts, with 8 ohm center and rears?

Sorry about all the questions. lol.

WagBoss

Regarding the 4 ohm vs 8 ohm,

Say the receiver does 100 W/ channel at 8 ohms. Therefore using P=RI^2, you get I = 3.54 A.
Into a 4 ohm speakers, r*3.54^2 is only 50w. Does that mean the amplifier can only do 50w/ch on 4 ohm speakers, because it can't give more then 3.54 A of current? *without breaking*

Or does having less impedance increase the power because it allows more current to flow into the speakers?

PrazVT

From the amp side, good power amps usually get close to doubling their power output when connected to 4ohm speakers. Yamaha lists dynamic power for 8/6/4/2 ohms, but otherwise they don't seem to explicitly say anything about 4ohms support on the site (not sure about the manual).

I think ideally you'd want an external amp for the LSi9s. I see the Yamaha has an 'audio out', but not sure if that works like a conventional pre-out.

LSi9s will be much more neutral in the highs than RTi As. And the put out an amazing amt of bass for their size.

WagBoss

PrazVT wrote: »

From the amp side, good power amps usually get close to doubling their power output when connected to 4ohm speakers. Yamaha lists dynamic power for 8/6/4/2 ohms, but otherwise they don't seem to explicitly say anything about 4ohms support on the site (not sure about the manual).

I think ideally you'd want an external amp for the LSi9s. I see the Yamaha has an 'audio out', but not sure if that works like a conventional pre-out.

LSi9s will be much more neutral in the highs than RTi As. And the put out an amazing amt of bass for their size.

I can't afford an external amplifier lol :P You don't think my yamaha could power the lsi9's? The recommended power is only 20-200w, running 5 speakers my receiver gets about 60w a channel i believe. Do you know what the volume difference would be running 8 ohm center and rears with 4 ohm fronts?

PrazVT

Yikes ... I didn't even think about you running other speakers as well. Not sure I'd attempt it.

Guys - what do you think?

michael1947

This sounds like impending disaster. We should try and stick with the same "omage" ( I just made up that word and kind of like it)...anyway use either 4 ohms on the TOTAL SYSTEM or 8 ohms on the TOTAL SYSTEM, mixing the two will likely cause some amp problems. I think attempting to run any of the LSI series or the larger tower RTI series will just smoke your yammy. I like yamaha and have a couple but the speakers you mentioned need big power. There are probably only 2 or 3 AVR's out there that will power the LSI's...Denon, HK and some Onkyo's. Separate amplifier is needed to make the RTI's sing. Check the weight of your unit, your RXV 671 weighs in at 23 pounds and that includes all the latest 3d and i-stuff hookups. Power comes from the wall socket to the transformer in the unit and that makes the music power for the speakers. The bigger the transformer the higher the current and so on. Some of the high grade units I mentioned weigh in excess of 60 pounds and it's mostly transformer. I have lots of speakers and some that I really like are the newer monitor series. They are fairly tight, good mids and pretty good base. This series of speakers would really like to meet your Yamaha RXV 671 and party down. Good luck

tonyb

WagBoss wrote: »

I can't afford an external amplifier lol :P You don't think my yamaha could power the lsi9's? QUOTE]

Simple, then don't buy a 4 ohm speaker.....no, your yamaha isn't up to running 4 ohm speakers. Stay in the 8 ohm area of rtia7's on down and you should be fine. It's not about volume, your asking the receiver to do more than it is designed to do which in the end will toast a speaker, the receiver, or both.

WagBoss

ok - thanks for the info. definitely won't buy any lsi9's.

WagBoss

so is the general consensus monitor 70s or rti a5s? I currently am using RT25i's as my fronts, how does the m70s or a5s compare to those? From what I can tell either would be a very big upgrade. are the a5's a lot better then m70s that make them worth about twice as much? m70s seem to be around 150 each and a5s 300 each.

PrazVT

Folks seem to like the RTi A5s here - supposedly good midrange w/ the 2 woofers. If you have a powered sub, then I'd go w/ the A5s. Less work for the Yammy to do as well.

The Monitor 70s are popular too - but I haven't heard them so can't really comment on what they sound like.

WagBoss

PrazVT wrote: »

Folks seem to like the RTi A5s here - supposedly good midrange w/ the 2 woofers. If you have a powered sub, then I'd go w/ the A5s. Less work for the Yammy to do as well.

The Monitor 70s are popular too - but I haven't heard them so can't really comment on what they sound like.

i have a psw505

michael1947

I just noticed your join date of December of 2011 so I will say Welcome. There are a lot of folks on this forum and I am probably the least informed on the intricacies of audio. You stated that you cannot afford to purchase an external amp and I understand that completely so if you are to "love the one you're with" then stick with your Yammy 671 it's a nice package with all of the latest hook-ups and as you move along in your trek in the world of audio you can up-grade. For the present try to arrange some "speakerage" ( I made up that word the other day) that will compliment it's capabilities. Compare it with having a smallish SUV such as a Toyota Rav 4 and wanting a 24' big lake boat to two behind it. Won't work. Bigger SUV or smaller boat. I have the entire Monitor series set up on one system, although with a larger Yamaha RXV 2400, and I really like them. I would say something like a pair of M40's for the fronts, the CS1 you mentioned for a center and if you want some rears I would like another pair of M40's. They are readily available on Polk's E-Bay site and the M40's run about $125 and the CS1 a little less. You could get all 5 for around $350 and have a very competent system. When you enter the arena of the "big boys" the price rises exponentially. A grand or two for an amp, several hundred for a pre-amp or processor and then you wouldn't put all that together without some $1,000.00 speaker cables and interconnects. You can nearly $5,000.00 on a CD player to feed this system. I think you can make what you have work into a very nice system, and be very proud of it...love the one you're with.
"

michael1947

Oh, I forgot to mention that about a year ago when I first set up my Monitor system I had a Brand New Pioneer 820 with about the same power as your rxv 671. I ran Cs2's with the 6.5" drivers for center, and right & left rears and M70's for fronts. It really sounded great and as I inched the volume up to really thump them...my little Pioneer shut right down, didn't want anything to do with all of those drivers. I was using a micro-pro 1000 to alleviate some of the base duties but it still shut down. I went to a rxv2400 on that rig and everything was just great and those M70 provided a very very big bang for the buck. The rxv2400 is a significant jump in power so I wouldn't recommend the M70's with your power...but I might buy some anyway as they are a GREAT DEAL.

michael1947

This sounds like impending disaster. We should try and stick with the same "omage" ( I just made up that word and kind of like it)...anyway use either 4 ohms on the TOTAL SYSTEM or 8 ohms on the TOTAL SYSTEM, mixing the two will likely cause some amp problems. I think attempting to run any of the LSI series or the larger tower RTI series will just smoke your yammy. I like yamaha and have a couple but the speakers you mentioned need big power. There are probably only 2 or 3 AVR's out there that will power the LSI's...Denon, HK and some Onkyo's. Separate amplifier is needed to make the RTI's sing. Check the weight of your unit, your RXV 671 weighs in at 23 pounds and that includes all the latest 3d and i-stuff hookups. Power comes from the wall socket to the transformer in the unit and that makes the music power for the speakers. The bigger the transformer the higher the current and so on. Some of the high grade units I mentioned weigh in excess of 60 pounds and it's mostly transformer. I have lots of speakers and some that I really like are the newer monitor series. They are fairly tight, good mids and pretty good base. This series of speakers would really like to meet your Yamaha RXV 671 and party down. Good luck

WagBoss

michael1947 wrote: »

I just noticed your join date of December of 2011 so I will say Welcome. There are a lot of folks on this forum and I am probably the least informed on the intricacies of audio. You stated that you cannot afford to purchase an external amp and I understand that completely so if you are to "love the one you're with" then stick with your Yammy 671 it's a nice package with all of the latest hook-ups and as you move along in your trek in the world of audio you can up-grade. For the present try to arrange some "speakerage" ( I made up that word the other day) that will compliment it's capabilities. Compare it with having a smallish SUV such as a Toyota Rav 4 and wanting a 24' big lake boat to two behind it. Won't work. Bigger SUV or smaller boat. I have the entire Monitor series set up on one system, although with a larger Yamaha RXV 2400, and I really like them. I would say something like a pair of M40's for the fronts, the CS1 you mentioned for a center and if you want some rears I would like another pair of M40's. They are readily available on Polk's E-Bay site and the M40's run about $125 and the CS1 a little less. You could get all 5 for around $350 and have a very competent system. When you enter the arena of the "big boys" the price rises exponentially. A grand or two for an amp, several hundred for a pre-amp or processor and then you wouldn't put all that together without some $1,000.00 speaker cables and interconnects. You can nearly $5,000.00 on a CD player to feed this system. I think you can make what you have work into a very nice system, and be very proud of it...love the one you're with.
"

I've had polks for a couple years now, rt25i's as fronts, and crappy polks for center and rears, forget which ones, but they are vinyl :S
I don't think monitor 40's are much of an upgrade, i want a bigger one :P
and I just bought the 671 so I'm not gonna get rid of it or anything, it does have front pre-outs, but I don't want to fork out the money for an external and speakers.

Lietuvis91

You have a decent sub, so you don't need the low end of a big speaker, nor do you have the power to really feed a big speeaker right anyway. You have the perfect setup for m60s, especially if you are really on a tight budget. It's a very versatile speaker that does music and Home Theater well. Plus your receiver will power it nicely to insane sound volumes if you wanna crank it up, so you won't have to worry about clipping. M60s will produce cleaner better quality sound with your gear.

Also, Members here say rtia paired with yamaha receivers sounds a bit too bright, but I personally never heard that combo.

WagBoss

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

You have a decent sub, so you don't need the low end of a big speaker, nor do you have the power to really feed a big speeaker right anyway. You have the perfect setup for m60s, especially if you are really on a tight budget. It's a very versatile speaker that does music and Home Theater well. Plus your receiver will power it nicely to insane sound volumes if you wanna crank it up, so you won't have to worry about clipping. M60s will produce cleaner better quality sound with your gear.

Also, Members here say rtia paired with yamaha receivers sounds a bit too bright, but I personally never heard that combo.

Both M60 and M70 are rated at 90dB efficiency, does that not mean they are the same loudness?

Lietuvis91

anonymouse wrote: »

In theory what that means is that for a watt of power, they should produce approximately the same decibel level of sound. What you will find in practice is that the control that your receiver will have over the speaker will be different for different speakers. The better the control, the more defined the sound. The M60 will be easier to control in theory.

Very interesting explanation. I never really thought of it in terms of control, but that makes a lot of sense and explains why I prefer running m60s over my m70s on my onkyo 608. The sound from the m70s does seem... sloppy. This is where quantity of sound is the same, but quality is not. However, throw an amp into the mix and tables turn, and m70s begin putting out much more precise and clean sound. So it's all about control... very interesting, and informative, thanks, good post!

WagBoss

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

Very interesting explanation. I never really thought of it in terms of control, but that makes a lot of sense and explains why I prefer running m60s over my m70s on my onkyo 608. The sound from the m70s does seem... sloppy. This is where quantity of sound is the same, but quality is not. However, throw an amp into the mix and tables turn, and m70s begin putting out much more precise and clean sound. So it's all about control... very interesting, and informative, thanks, good post!

so you think I should get m60s with a rx-v671?

pyrocyborg

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

Also, Members here say rtia paired with yamaha receivers sounds a bit too bright, but I personally never heard that combo.

Low-end yamaha receivers seems to be on the bright side. I do have one, and with the RTI line, sound is very bright, harsh at high volume, unconfortable for long listening time. It's kinda sad.

However, Yamaha stereo receivers are supposed to be neutral, so do higher-end AVR ones: But I can't comment on this as I do not own either.

Considering that the RTIa line is less bright than the old RTI line, my guess is that it won't be that bad. It might actually be great with an AVR which isn't a low-end Yammy.

Lietuvis91

WagBoss wrote: »

so you think I should get m60s with a rx-v671?

Yes, I think m60s is the better route, particularly if you will make this a 5.1 system. In 2 channel only, m70s might be ok... I just personally don't like their sound without external amplification. I'm rocking my m60s now off the onkyo 608, no sub, and am really pleased with how it sounds, especially at low volume levels. Clean, punchy, very tight and precise pleasant to listen to sound. M70s were droany and muddy with this receiver, it was more noise than music. Like I said, with an amp, the m70s improve drastically. M60s with a solid sub will rock the house with your receiver.

WagBoss

How do you guys think the tsi400 compare to the m60? I believe that the tsi400 is just the newer model? Do they sound better? worse? the same?