ASIO compatibility

heiney9

I have a quick question I don't quite understand about USB compatibility.

I am looking at purchasing a used Stello DA100. It has coax, digital, and USB. It states in the manual that it's not ASIO compatible just pure playback mode. I am somewhat a computer audio guru but I am not 100% certain what this means.

This will be for my computer rig, via USB running Media Monkey with the ASIO4ALL plug in to bypass the Windows K-mixer crap. Does this mean the Stello will not be compatible when I run MM in this configuration? If so, is there another option that bypasses the Windows K-mixer. I am running Windows 7.

I don't want to buy this to find out I can't run it like I want to.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:QWEKdhVI2EoJ:www.aprilmusic.com/bbs/download_ufile.php%3FbbsMode%3DfileDown%26filename%3DDA100_Manual_Eng.pdf+stello+da100&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjLXuTSVhyWGTX3lKU7qiPhQ-OYZ1-l3qfm_-Fxh1NlFJG0onQjJgD0tfZtLPzYuNc1jtc4gCagMqZSffRONlUjtfsJSSxKxo3WJ__PtuyJmouqQGu5F9euvrm-KP07_h0U7ztt&sig=AHIEtbQ2QXNyes-8bh9I8NqYHMq7IMSA1Q

H9

Face

A few things to consider.

I doubt the person who wrote it natively speakers English. Does it come with drivers? If not, how does it do 24/192 via USB? USB 1.1, how old is this thing? Want me to find more red flags or are you going to move on?

heiney9

2006 since it's the standard version not the signature.

Ricardo had one, I heard it quite extensively at his house but he wasn't using the USB connection. I liked what I heard.

the USB 1.1 threw me as well, especially since it's fairly new. You think I should pass on it? It's at the upper end of my budget for the office rig.

Also looking at the MHDT Paradesia 3. But it has a tube buffered output as I'm not sure I want more tubes in the mix. The seller is including extra tubes and extra Op-amps for rolling as well as it has Clarity Cap output coupling caps.

H9

Face

I'm not sure which MHDT Paradesias I heard, but there were two at an audio meet, one fully modded, one stock. They both sounded the same, sloppy bass and rolled off highs.

I'd pass on the other DAC too if you plan on using USB.

Drenis

heiney9 wrote: »

This will be for my computer rig, via USB running Media Monkey with the ASIO4ALL plug in to bypass the Windows K-mixer crap.

Hmm... wonder if this is something I should look into since I use my computer via MM through HDMI out to my AVR's DAC. I bet I have some settings buggered up. Time to read up on this ASIO.

Edit: Boy I thought coffee woke me up in the morning. Must be this crappy Starbucks someone brought in for me cause I don;t know how I confused USB and HDMI... classy. Anyways I want to move to USB out, so i'll still take a look into this. Still makes me wonder if I have my settings all wrong on my digital HDMI out to my AVR because it still utilizes windows volume and sample rate changes all affect the output sound.

Why does this sh...err crap have to be so complicated?

heiney9

Sloppy even for bookshelfs? Never heard a NOS dac thought I give it a try but I have read the Paradesia because it has a tube can be sloppy a little rolled off. Although with the Bendix 2C51 tube intalled it sounded a lot better according to one reviewer. Those Bendix tubes are pricey however.

Maybe I'll just stick with my original idea and get the Audio GD. More than I wanted to spend, but maybe in the end it's worth it. I'm trying to balance the best sound vs. my budget which I have set at $300.

Tbone289

heiney9 wrote: »

If so, is there another option that bypasses the Windows K-mixer. I am running Windows 7.

There is no K-mixer in Windows 7 (or Vista). It was replaced by WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API). In shared-mode WASAPI, there is a mixer (not K-mixer as in XP and previous). Exclusive-mode WASAPI bypasses any mixing that occurs in shared-mode.

There are plugins to most media players that will force WASAPI exclusive mode. From discussions viewed after a brief Google search, I see that there is an exclusive-mode capable WASAPI plugin for MM.

Tbone289

I should add, to reduce confusion, that there still are many references to the Vista and Windows 7 mixer as "Kmixer". It actually is not the same as the Kmixer found in legacy versions of Windows, however.

drselect

Tbone289 wrote: »

There is no K-mixer in Windows 7 (or Vista). . From discussions viewed after a brief Google search, I see that there is an exclusive-mode capable WASAPI plugin for MM.

I believe this is true for the recently released version 4 of MM but not true for earlier versions.

vcwatkins

Pardon my complete ignorance. If I'm using Windows 7 and MM 4 with WASAPI output, I'm currently bypassing mixing and there's nothing I can do to further improve usb output?

Tbone289 wrote: »

There is no K-mixer in Windows 7 (or Vista). It was replaced by WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API). In shared-mode WASAPI, there is a mixer (not K-mixer as in XP and previous). Exclusive-mode WASAPI bypasses any mixing that occurs in shared-mode.

There are plugins to most media players that will force WASAPI exclusive mode. From discussions viewed after a brief Google search, I see that there is an exclusive-mode capable WASAPI plugin for MM.

Tbone289

vcwatkins wrote: »

Pardon my complete ignorance. If I'm using Windows 7 and MM 4 with WASAPI output, I'm currently bypassing mixing and there's nothing I can do to further improve usb output?

Not if you're using WASAPI exclusive mode, and the author of your WASAPI interface has done his job correctly. WASAPI exclusive mode bypasses the mixer and has access to bit-perfect output. I suppose you could also possibly reduce jitter to your DAC with a better cable, but I doubt you'll notice a difference.

heiney9

I am using ASIO for MM and it's working really well. I have a WASAPI plug-in for MM but I haven't gotten it to work properly. Lots of lag and drop-outs and if I move the slider bar around to advance the song, I get (-) read times in the track time display. It acts all funky most of the time so I have abandoned WASAPI for ASIO. I do have an older version of MM, not 4, so perhaps that's part of my issue with WASAPI. ASIO bypasses the mixer and has bit perfect output as well.

H9

vcwatkins

Tbone289 wrote: »

Not if you're using WASAPI exclusive mode, and the author of your WASAPI interface has done his job correctly. WASAPI exclusive mode bypasses the mixer and has access to bit-perfect output. I suppose you could also possibly reduce jitter to your DAC with a better cable, but I doubt you'll notice a difference.

Thanks TBone.

vcwatkins

heiney9 wrote: »

I am using ASIO for MM and it's working really well. I have a WASAPI plug-in for MM but I haven't gotten it to work properly. Lots of lag and drop-outs and if I move the slider bar around to advance the song, I get (-) read times in the track time display. It acts all funky most of the time so I have abandoned WASAPI for ASIO. I do have an older version of MM, not 4, so perhaps that's part of my issue with WASAPI. ASIO bypasses the mixer and has bit perfect output as well.

H9

I've only had one problem - the volume of output dropped out completely. Other output Pandora One was coming thru ok. Restarted MM and the volume slider had dropped to zero. Adjusted and it was good. Hasn't happened but that one time. I didn't immediately think of it being a problem with the WASAPI, but, after reading your post, realize it must have been. If it crops up again, I guess I'll try ASIO. Thanks H9.

heiney9

Which volume slider are you refering to that dropped to zero and had to be adjusted? The vol slider in MM should be disabled when running ASIO or WASAPI.

H9

Tbone289

heiney9 wrote: »

I am using ASIO for MM and it's working really well. I have a WASAPI plug-in for MM but I haven't gotten it to work properly. Lots of lag and drop-outs and if I move the slider bar around to advance the song, I get (-) read times in the track time display. It acts all funky most of the time so I have abandoned WASAPI for ASIO. I do have an older version of MM, not 4, so perhaps that's part of my issue with WASAPI. ASIO bypasses the mixer and has bit perfect output as well.

H9

I've had similar results with poorly written WASAPI plugins, but the one I'm using now (with Winamp) works very well. Hey, whatever works best, IMO, as both ASIO and WASAPI get the job done.

Tbone289

vcwatkins wrote: »

I've only had one problem - the volume of output dropped out completely. Other output Pandora One was coming thru ok. Restarted MM and the volume slider had dropped to zero. Adjusted and it was good. Hasn't happened but that one time. I didn't immediately think of it being a problem with the WASAPI, but, after reading your post, realize it must have been. If it crops up again, I guess I'll try ASIO. Thanks H9.

From what I understand, if you're able to adjust the volume in your player with WASAPI, you're not running exclusive mode WASAPI. Therefore, you're not fully bypassing the mixer.

vcwatkins

Hmmm... Yeah the MM vol slider showed 100% during the dropout and I noticed after restart it went to 0. Slid it up and I got volume, but haven't been listening closely. Guess I'm not bypassing mixer. Not sure how to tell exactly what's going on. Not a huge deal, given the system, but I'd like to know if and when I'm doing it correctly (snicker).

heiney9

Try the ASIO

scroll down to number 4 and click on the link, that is the ASIO driver for MM

http://otachan.com/out_asio%28dll%29.html

once you unzip it you may need to cut an paste it into "tools", "options", "output plug-ins".

Then you need to DL the ASIO4ALL universal driver. Unzip it and it should work. The ASIO4ALL icon will be in your tray and if click on advanced you can mess with some of the settings.

http://www.asio4all.com/

Try it, it works great for me

H9

drselect

heiney9 wrote: »

Which volume slider are you refering to that dropped to zero and had to be adjusted? The vol slider in MM should be disabled when running ASIO or WASAPI.

H9

Brock, this is a point that I have never been able to resolve. What about the vol slider for Vista? In my case it is part of the tool bar on the lower right of my screen. Should I be able to adjust the volume with that slider if ASIO is working correctly? I have read in place that you shouldn't and then in other places that you need to leave it at 100% in order to bypass the mixer.

vcwatkins

heiney9 wrote: »

Try the ASIO

scroll down to number 4 and click on the link, that is the ASIO driver for MM

http://otachan.com/out_asio%28dll%29.html

once you unzip it you may need to cut an paste it into "tools", "options", "output plug-ins".

Then you need to DL the ASIO4ALL universal driver. Unzip it and it should work. The ASIO4ALL icon will be in your tray and if click on advanced you can mess with some of the settings.

http://www.asio4all.com/

Try it, it works great for me

H9

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a shot.

Drenis

Is this exclusive for USB connections? Or can it be used with HDMI out from a computer? I have full volume controlon the puter and MM.

vcwatkins

Found my error. The "exclusive" was unchecked and I had some crossfading effects still in effect. I think MM had stalled and I had to restart after changing to WASAPI. May have lost the settings in the restart. Should have looked at that yesterday. Oh well.. All is good now with MM vol disabled and sounding MUCH better. Thanks guys!

Tbone289

bikerboy

T-bone is on the right track. I have been using the beta and now latest MM4 version. If you are using MM3 asio is the the way to go, but when using MM4 w/win 7 wasapi is the better way. MM4 now has secure rip options and is working well on my amd/win7 computer. I have had trouble with previous versions of MM4 with window 7-64 bit but I think it is good now. Make sure you turn off the cross fade option and turn on exclusive mode. If MM is closed improperly it may not save all the settings. I run a Twisted Pear Audio Buffalo III with a Teradac teralink usb module for usb conversion. I am waiting for the TPA guys to finish their usb converter. The current setup sounds almost as good as the shigaclone transport.

heiney9

One of the reason's I haven't upgraded to MM v4 is because I've been reading about people having issues. I am thoroughly happy with the previous version running ASIO. But I may do some research on MM v4 and see if what it offers over my current version would be utilized. I have come to the realization that the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" moniker is a good one sometimes.

H9

heiney9

Drselect,

I run Windows 7 64bit and using the ASIO plug-in with the ASIO4ALL driver, the MM volume slider is disabled (as it should be) but the Realtek audio output volume control from Windows 7 still works. I simply leave it at 100%. It's my understanding that if you play other audio files outside of MM, like Youtube or Netflix, etc the system uses the Windows output and then you would control those audio files with the Windows audio output.

H9

heiney9

Drenis wrote: »

Is this exclusive for USB connections? Or can it be used with HDMI out from a computer? I have full volume controlon the puter and MM.

Have no idea since I don't mess with HDMI on a computer or the relation between ASIO and HDMI, etc.

H9

EndersShadow

Drenis wrote: »

Is this exclusive for USB connections? Or can it be used with HDMI out from a computer? I have full volume controlon the puter and MM.

I think its USB only. I use MediaMonkey with HDMI and have volume control in Media Monkey. I keep the volume at 100% and use my AVR's remote though.

Tbone289

heiney9 wrote: »

I have come to the realization that the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" moniker is a good one sometimes.

H9

AMEN to that. Especially while you wait for bugfixes on a new software version or driver.

Drenis

EndersShadow wrote: »

I think its USB only. I use MediaMonkey with HDMI and have volume control in Media Monkey. I keep the volume at 100% and use my AVR's remote though.

What do you set the sample rate in the windows sound properties to? I have mine set at 16/44.1. Every other option sounds the same until I select 24/192. The L and R channels of my AVR light up where as they don't when in any other sample rate. I *THINK* it sounds worse in that setup. I just want to ensure I'm getting bit perfect sound to my AVR.

I'll be the first to admit my sound is dull and flat. I can't wait to get an external DAC into the mix. I'm hoping it will lift the blanket off my speakers.