Should I Upgrade R50s to Monitor60s or TSi400s?

Florida_Gator

Posted this on the AVS Forum also, but wanted to check-in here too...


I'm considering upgrading my R50 fronts to Monitor 60s or (maybe) TSi 400s.

Currently using CS20 center and R150s for surrounds. BIC F12 sub. Receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR505 (75 wpc). All set to small with 80hz crossover.

90% home theater. Should I bother?

Reason I ask... I saw (heard) a significant improvement when I upgraded my CSR center (same line as R50s) to the CS20. Should I expect the same jump by swapping the mains?

Thanks!

PS. Also -- is the "big jump" going to be going to the Monitor60s, and not so much the TSi400s, or would they both be "big jumps" (i.e. if it's a "big jump" going from R50s to Monitor60s, would it be another equal "big jump" going from the Monitor60s to the TSi400s?)

Lietuvis91

I have had both, the r50 and m60. The m60 is going to provide a fuller sound, more depth, not necessarily any cleaner/clearer. Going from memory as it has been a while since I heard the r50s. M60s will also be a good match for your current receiver. I would skip the tsi400 all together. M60s would be a noticeable upgrade and I think newegg has them for $99 each righ now, so for $200 it's a pretty darn good deal. But why not step up to the A5? I know it's a lot more money, but it is also a good bit more of a leap forward.

Florida_Gator

If I were using these for music, I'd definitely consider the RTiA5 (or RTi8) speakers, but since this if for HT, and since I want to "match" the CS20 center as much as possible, I'm considering Monitor60s and TSi400s.

Just trying to determine if I'll notice much. I'm not unhappy with the R50s for HT; but I do notice the slight difference in quality between them and the CS20 (something that I didn't notice with the CSR center, though I needed more output on the center which is why I upgraded it).

Thanks!

Lietuvis91

Well, the reason I mentioned getting the rtia5 is precisely because they are mainly designed for HT and that is your main focus.

But you are right, the cs2 will not match rtia speakers, so if you went with a5s you would also have to buy a new center, which would make things more expensive. So if you are not ready to shell out the cash and make the leap into rtia series, which in your case would make the biggest difference i think, then m60 would still be a fairly noticeable improvement.

ROHfan

Florida_Gator wrote: »

Just trying to determine if I'll notice much.

I upgraded from R50s to Monitor 60s early last year. For music the difference was pretty substantial. Bigger, fuller soundstage, clearer sound. For HT the M60s integrated seamlessly because I was already using the CS10. When I had the R50s the front stage sounded like I was using a different speaker for dialog. With the M60s, the center channel almost disappeard and fit right in. I'm even happier with my front stage now that I've upgraded to the CS2.

Also note that the CS2 and CS20 are identical except for the enclosure.

Florida_Gator

Thanks a bunch guys, for your great, insightful feedback.

Does the fact that my center is the CS20 mean I will have to go to the TSi to get my seamless front sound stage back? If the CS2 is the same as the CS20, then I guess the Monitor60s will match the CS20 OK?

Lietuvis91

NO worries, they are nearly the same speaker, It will match just fine, go with m60s for sure.

ROHfan

Florida_Gator wrote: »

Does the fact that my center is the CS20 mean I will have to go to the TSi to get my seamless front sound stage back? If the CS2 is the same as the CS20, then I guess the Monitor60s will match the CS20 OK?

Like Lietuvis91 said, M60s, definitely. Only reason I can see for you to go TSI is so that they visually match your CS20. Not worth the extra cost, IMO.

Florida_Gator

And pretty safe to assume I don't have enough amps in my receiver for 70s, right?

I know the 60s are plenty... Just want the upgrade to stand out.

ROHfan

Florida_Gator wrote: »

And pretty safe to assume I don't have enough amps in my receiver for 70s, right?

I know the 60s are plenty... Just want the upgrade to stand out.

I've never heard the 70s but your Onkyo can probably push those just fine and I'm sure they wouldn't sound like crap. A higher quality amp will only make them sound better. When I got my HK3490 my M60s sounded so much better, and I loved them BEFORE that receiver! Before that I thought the "better, more powerful amp" suggestions were a bit exaggerated. Not at all. If I had my 3490 before I bought the M60s, and I knew then what I know now, I'd have waited for the 70s to go on sale on the Egg for $149 each which is what they were a few weeks ago.

Good luck in your quest for good sound, and welcome!

Florida_Gator

My current receiver (Onkyo TX-SR505) puts out 75 WPC. It does fine driving the speakers you see listed below. Would it drive 70's OK also?

I should point out that within a year or two, I will likely upgrade the receiver to a more powerful Onkyo (60x or 70x size), which will put out 100+ WPC. I don't want to have to get a separate amp (I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S.)

Knowing the above, should I just go ahead and get 70's? Please keep in mind that I don't want to overpower the center (CS20) -- I upgraded to the CS20 (from the CSR) because of that, and I don't want to do it again...

Thanks!

Lietuvis91

Stick with the m60s, especially if you like to play it loud. M70s need juice to be worth their salt, it'll be too much for your current receiver and M60s witha nice sub sound great anyway.

Florida_Gator

Thanks a ton guys -- ordered the (cherry) Polk M60s. I'm planning on moving the R50s to the sides, and the R150s to rears. At least, until my next upgrade! Already thinking about giving the R150s to my Dad, and replacing them with M30s...

Lietuvis91

Florida_Gator wrote: »

Already thinking about giving the R150s to my Dad, and replacing them with M30s...

I doubt there would be much gain from that switch. I'd just stick with the R150s until you are ready to make a bigger leap.

Florida_Gator

I'm sure you're right (the R150s are quite good for what they are, esp. in surround/back duty). I'd only do it if it would help my Dad out (his HT needs work), moreso than for the "upgrade" for me. But as you know, it's nice to have people around to cascade stuff to (upgrading is OK with my wife, but doing it without getting rid of the old is a no-no, heh heh).

Lietuvis91

I know what you mean, I'm pushing the barrier of overkill with my two 5 channel HT systems. That's a lot of speakers and gear! I can't see buying even one addition thing at this point...

For now it's fun to have enough gear to keep changing things up and testing out different configurations and ideas, but once that get's old I will probably downsize one of the systems to a 2 channel rig.

Florida_Gator

Lietuvis91,

We have *6* HDTVs in the house... but I'm only allowed to have one HT setup (so far, heh heh). Unfortunately I rarely really get to use it, since I have no basement/media room. But it sure is great for movies and sports!

Florida_Gator

Elroy Stolle wrote: »

I like TSi400s.

Me too, but for almost $300 less, I couldn't pass up the Monitor 60's... (just not quite as pretty).

Florida_Gator

Guys,

Just wanted to follow-up here...

I got the MonitorII-60s a few days ago. I left the receiver setup as-is (all small; crossover set to 80hz), and did a little before-and-after with the original R50 mains and then the M60 mains. Definitely a nice upgrade! More clarity and tighter bass, and the mids are just fantastic.

Now I'm trying to decide if I should replace my surrounds (R150s) with the R50s. That would free up the R150s for surround-back duty (have an Onkyo TX-SR505 7.1 receiver), but I'd have speaker placement problems going to 7.1... so I dunno.

Of course this is now making me want to do more upgrades... ugh... music sounds quite a bit better now (to the point that I'm wondering how much better M70s would be for that)... guess it's time to upgrade Dad's system to "justify" more upgrades, LOL.

Anywho, just an FYI to anyone out there wondering if it's worth it to upgrade from R50s to M60s for fronts: YES. (of course a sub is needed either way).

Thanks all,

tonyb

I would move up on that receiver before buying more speakers, just a thought. That upgrade bug is constantly nipping at your shorts. Nothing wrong with keeping it simple, but at some point an amplifier will be needed, just depends on how big your eyes get upgrading.

PSOVLSK

Glad the upgrade was worthwhile and that you're enjoying your new speakers.

I'd give the R50 a shot at surround duty. I used them for surrounds at one time. I thought they sounded better, but I just didn't really like having towers as surounds...personal preference of course.

As far as 5.1 vs. 7.1 goes, I also tried that and for my room I decided it wasn't worth it. Since you mention "speaker placement problems going to 7.1" I suspect you might have the same results as me.

You already have all the speakers so give it a shot and decide what you like best. If you decide on 5.1, sell a pair of speakers and put that money towards the amp tonyb was talking about:biggrin:

Florida_Gator

Thanks guys. Yes, a new receiver is most likely my next upgrade. I'm leaning towards the Onkyo TX-NR609 or 709 (or maybe the model after those, depending on when I do this).

Thing is, now that I have the new speakers, plus a new Sony BR player with Pandora (Christmas present from wife), I'm REALLY enjoying them with music more than before (I'd say my system has been used 90+% for HT, and less than 10% for music, up to now). But 2.1 stereo music now sounds so good, I'm wondering if I should get M70s for the fronts after the receiver upgrade (I'd then move the 60s to surrounds). Gotta pace myself though... :cheesygrin:

Lietuvis91

Good work! Just enjoy this system for a while, and when you have the funds to really move up big, then do it big, skip the m70s and go to rtia or lsis. Your current receiver will drive m60s much better than m70s. M70's really do need more power to sound good. Otherwise they are just a big **** sitting in your room.

As a side note: I just brought my parasound amp in for service and hooked my onkyo 608 up to my m70s in the mean time, and I just can't stand the sound. It use to be punchy and clear, and now it just sounds like noise, not music... I think I'm going to swap in my m60s in for now, because that receiver seemed to do them more justice.

Florida_Gator

Wow, great info Lietuvis91, thanks for that! What you're saying makes a lot of sense -- the M70s+sub with my smallish receiver (75WPC) would sound worse, overall, than the M60s+sub.

I will definitely not do anything hasty. And my NEXT upgrade will be the receiver (not different/more speakers).

For now I'm going to try changing the crossover from 80 to 60, to see what that does to music. For movies, 80hz sounds "just right" for just about everything.

Lietuvis91

Sure thing, glad to help.

I just swapped the m70s out and put the m60s in their place running off this onkyo 608. Oh man... so much better... mids are nice and tight, sound is crisper and clearer... I can hear more music and less blur, this sound is a pleasure to listen to. M70s need real power to be worth their salt, period.

Florida_Gator

Yup, I'm good! But the upgrade does make me want to upgrade my surrounds (gee, what a surprise).

But I'm gonna "stay" for now, and just fiddle with the R50s and R150s for surround and surround-back, to see what I like better where.

Thanks again for everyone's help on this thread.