Stereo receiver and ps3/bluray

pyrocyborg

Hi there!

I just replaced my 2 years old RTi4 with RTi6 and I love them so far. In a near future, I am thinking of replacing my 5.1 Yammy receiver for a stereo one, as I mostly listen at music, and I would get a warmer one in the process... I mean, it's almost a 20% HT/80 music system.

Here is my problem: I listen my music from my ps3 (well, my PC pushes lossless audio to my ps3 which is connected to my receiver) and I also use it as my bluray drive, so digital cables comes handy. I like the fact to be able to control everything from the ps3, and it's way faster than using a CD player while listening music and changing music every 20 mins or so.

I know a stereo receiver don't have any HDMI/optic in or out... so, is it possible to connect the PS3 with composite cables to the receiver without any quality loss (or connect the ps3 to the TV, and using an output of the TV to connect to the receiver)? I mean, most people are using those types of cables or the digital coaxial for stereo use, or am I mistaken? If so, I guess there sould not be any difference in quality either I use HDMI/optic for sound or composite...?

I would also like to know if someone is using it's 2.1 receiver as an "Home theater" and if it's sounding as great (minus the 5.1 /7.1...)

Thanks a lot for your help!:rolleyes:

quadzilla

I think if you're going to go that way, you'd be better off running the PS/3 into a DAC. And composite cables look like **** compared to HDMI, nor will you be able to get lossless audio out of anything except HDMI.

Serendipity

quadzilla wrote: »

I think if you're going to go that way, you'd be better off running the PS/3 into a DAC.

Unfortunately, you would have to feed PCM only into the DAC, otherwise you won't get any sound. For those of us that listen to concert DVDs, or play DTS 96/24 material, an external DAC (such as the Cambridge DacMagic) wouldn't work.

Speaking of which - how many DACs natively take DD, DTS 96/24, and convert it to be played through your preamp on a 2 channel rig?

skrol

Harman Kardon makes a stereo receiver with a digital input. There are likely others. http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK%203490

pyrocyborg

skrol wrote: »

Harman Kardon makes a stereo receiver with a digital input. There are likely others. http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK%203490

Thanks everyone! Thanks Skrol for the link, this HK seems reasonnably priced and I like the HK sound. Sure it's no high end nor audiophile grade, but it should be exactly the kind of receiver that I need. I Don't know how HK sounds with the RTI line, but it might goes well together.

pyrocyborg

What I quite don't understand is why almost every integrated amp or stereo receiver under 1000$ don't have any digital input if it's the only way to get lossless sound? Most of them can only be connected to phono or analog cables... I don't mind not having DTS as, well, I don't have 5 speakers so the immersion isn't that great anyway, but I want to be able to listen to my music in stereo with my sub and this is a top priority.

In the same way: Why are almost every CD player I see are connected by analog cables?

I don't get it

So, to rephrase everything: If I do want to listen to stereo music, should I get an integrated amp and let my TV convert the HDMI PS3 signal to analog or is a DAC the only way to go to achieve a great sound? Thanks again

tonyb

If better sound is your goal, the TV is not the answer. Yes a Dac will give you better sound. That HK in the link above, as a stereo unit seems pretty decent for what you get, if thats the ticket for your needs.

quadzilla

pyrocyborg wrote: »

What I quite don't understand is why almost every integrated amp or stereo receiver under 1000$ don't have any digital input if it's the only way to get lossless sound? Most of them can only be connected to phono or analog cables... I don't mind not having DTS as, well, I don't have 5 speakers so the immersion isn't that great anyway, but I want to be able to listen to my music in stereo with my sub and this is a top priority.

In the same way: Why are almost every CD player I see are connected by analog cables?

I don't get it

So, to rephrase everything: If I do want to listen to stereo music, should I get an integrated amp and let my TV convert the HDMI PS3 signal to analog or is a DAC the only way to go to achieve a great sound? Thanks again

At some point, a digital signal has to be converted to an analog signal to be amplified. The only way to get lossless audio from a PS/3 is via HDMI bitstreaming. Otherwise, the PS/3 will downconvert the audio (and video, again, unless via HDMI out) before it outputs the signal. The other side of that is that the DAC in a PS/3 isn't that great. I ran one via analog outs for a short time, and there's no comparison to even PCM output from a PS/3. However, I never used mine for a media player on a regular basis, as I found the sound output from CDs, etc., inferior (heavily colored) to even my PC with a soundblaster x-fi card.

The reason most relatively low-cost amps/receivers don't have digital inputs is because leaving them out let's them make/sell the unit cheaper. You may end up doing better getting an entry level 7.1 AVR with pre outs and then just configuring it for 2 channnel and coupling that with something like a carver or adcom external 2 channel amp. The AVR will at least have digital inputs, but it'll probably still have a crap DAC.

Bottom line is that once you say "blu-ray" and "without any loss in quality" in the same sentence, things start getting expensive real fast.

tonyb

Good post Quad.....Let me add also that if you have any interest in the audio from a Blu-ray disk, the higher codecs that is, you can't get that without HDMI. Well, you can, but that takes 5.1 speakers which you don't have and analog outputs/inputs.

Maybe a regular A/V receiver and kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak. You will need the connectivety they offer over a stereo unit at some point.

pyrocyborg

quadzilla wrote: »

At some point, a digital signal has to be converted to an analog signal to be amplified. The only way to get lossless audio from a PS/3 is via HDMI bitstreaming. Otherwise, the PS/3 will downconvert the audio (and video, again, unless via HDMI out) before it outputs the signal. The other side of that is that the DAC in a PS/3 isn't that great. I ran one via analog outs for a short time, and there's no comparison to even PCM output from a PS/3. However, I never used mine for a media player on a regular basis, as I found the sound output from CDs, etc., inferior (heavily colored) to even my PC with a soundblaster x-fi card.

The reason most relatively low-cost amps/receivers don't have digital inputs is because leaving them out let's them make/sell the unit cheaper. You may end up doing better getting an entry level 7.1 AVR with pre outs and then just configuring it for 2 channnel and coupling that with something like a carver or adcom external 2 channel amp. The AVR will at least have digital inputs, but it'll probably still have a crap DAC.

Bottom line is that once you say "blu-ray" and "without any loss in quality" in the same sentence, things start getting expensive real fast.

Thanks Quad, very informative answer. To be honest, I didn't use any CD player on my new system as everything is on my computer and streamed to my PS3 media server. I didn't think it was actually coloring the sound to some extent, but it does make some sense.

Would it be interresting to buy something like the Creative X-FI USB powered sound card and use it's optical out to my receiver. This way, I wouldn't need to light up my PS3 everytime I want to listen to music... and maybe it would sound better or less harsh.

quadzilla

pyrocyborg wrote: »

Would it be interresting to buy something like the Creative X-FI USB powered sound card and use it's optical out to my receiver. This way, I wouldn't need to light up my PS3 everytime I want to listen to music... and maybe it would sound better or less harsh.

I have the first x-fi USB, and they have a new "audiophile" model that has a better dac and analog outs, as well as optical. You might try the DAC in that and see if it's better than the one in your AVR. I find the DAC in my USB model not horrible, and use it to listen via headphones at work. It also has an optical in, so you could run the blu-ray audio out of your PS/3 and try that. But the PS/3 will still down convert the audio to PCM before it outputs the signal, even over optical.

pyrocyborg

quadzilla wrote: »

I have the first x-fi USB, and they have a new "audiophile" model that has a better dac and analog outs, as well as optical. You might try the DAC in that and see if it's better than the one in your AVR. I find the DAC in my USB model not horrible, and use it to listen via headphones at work. It also has an optical in, so you could run the blu-ray audio out of your PS/3 and try that. But the PS/3 will still down convert the audio to PCM before it outputs the signal, even over optical.

Thanks again Quad. I'm actually reading about the new X-Fi titanium (PCI-express) and the ASUS Xonar Essence. As I can see, the ASUS has an EQ which could be helpfull as my current receiver only display a basic treble-bass setting that remove or add too much of needed frequencies.

What do you think of audio card overall? Is it a great way to turn a PC into a great "CD" drive, or is it expensive for nothing (i.e. another device could do the same thing for less?). I think that it could be a suitable idea, as my PC contains my music, and in fact, the PS3 is an "intermediary" between my PC music and my receiver... Same thing for the TV, if I can shut them both and use my PC instead, it could be great as for now, I must open my PC, my PS3, my TV and my receiver to listen to my music. Thing is, I am using my PC for gaming too, so a great sound card would not be luxury.

Anyways, I read a review on Stereophile about the ASUS Xonar, but I don't know if it would be overkill for my rig... I mean, I have a low-end Yammy receiver (300ish) and Polk RTI6, which is by no mean near an audiophile system.

quadzilla

I have an x-fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro and it's pretty good over all for listening. It's not what I would call super high end, but it's one of the better PC sound cards I've heard. I've seen the X-Fi Titanium HD which looks kind of interesting. Haven't heard one yet though. I do like that some of the components are mounted in sockets so you can swap things out.

pyrocyborg

Oh! That's why many people said it had a toslink output... while I couldn't see it from the picture! Interresting.

Well, I guess a new sound card will be on my "to buy" list. As I have no super high-end gear (hell... it's on the low-end of the "hi-fi" continuum!... lol), I guess it won't be that bad either as my PC is my main media source. Thanks for your input, it's very valuable.

Goodnight (or have a nice day)!

PerfectCreature

You can find them on eBay, look up Razor Baracuda AC-1, it is a far better audio card then the Creative X-Fi. They are reasonably priced when found used. I have one myself, and the audio is great from it.
Read up some information on it. It's a great buy.