Question about Bi-Wiring
I've read a bunch of posts saying if you use your 7.1 side to "bi-amp" your front towers, it really doesn't actually do anything. Power-wise, the total power from your amplifier will obviously still be the same, but since 2/7 wires go to the right, 2/7 go to the left, and 1/7 goes to center, 1/7 to right surround, 1/7 to left surround, will the power not be doubled in respect to the other speakers, thus giving the front towers more power then the small surrounds? At max volume, will 2/7ths of the power not go to each tower, instead of 1/5 if I had only 1 wire going to each of my 5 speakers? If I'm wrong, if you can explain in depth why it doesn't do this, thanks 
Basically does bi-amping from the same receiver increase the power output to towers, while decreasing power output to center and surrounds, with respect to before. I know it doesn't increase the total power.
Basically does bi-amping from the same receiver increase the power output to towers, while decreasing power output to center and surrounds, with respect to before. I know it doesn't increase the total power.
Post edited by WagBoss on
Comments
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Alot depends on the receiver and the speakers, but generally speaking, when you bi-amp with a receiver, your robbing peter to pay Paul. Yes the fronts will get alittle more power, but at the expense of taking it away from all the other channels. Very few receivers in the entry level to midline give out their rated power into all channels. Usually when you read 100 watts per channel, it's with 2 channels driven, then every channel you add to that the power goes down. Not all receivers mind you, but most under 1000 bucks.
Now, depending on your speakers, and the amount of drivers, the top half really doesn't use alot of power so this constant quest to bi-amp off a receiver baffles me, no offense to you, because we get this question 5 times a week....and your new, so a hardy welcome is in order. A receiver has x amount of power, you can slice it up any way you want, won't change a thing. Most receivers power drops off a cliff at 7 channel surround. So if you have a 5.1 system, and you use the extra channels to biamp the fronts, you just cut in half almost the power to all 7 channels. Follow me ? Now, if you have relatively easy speakers to drive, 8 ohm, with not alot of drivers or are on the smallish side, this won't matter as those types of speakers draw little power anyway, they don't represent a heavy load to the receiver. It's when people start using a mediocre receiver with big floorstanders in 7 channel surround and are cranking on the volume dial that they run into trouble. In an ideal world, a receiver with preouts is mostly recommended to be able to add an amplifier down the road should you start drooling over those A9's, or LSI's. Hope this helps a bit, and I'm sure others will chime in too.
Oh....almost forgot,again.....WELCOME TO THE MADNESS......hide your wallet, the guys and gals around here are great at spending your money. Actually, I am too, just wanted to give you the impression that I have a halo over my head....bent and rusty as it may be.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Alot depends on the receiver and the speakers, but generally speaking, when you bi-amp with a receiver, your robbing peter to pay Paul. Yes the fronts will get alittle more power, but at the expense of taking it away from all the other channels. Very few receivers in the entry level to midline give out their rated power into all channels. Usually when you read 100 watts per channel, it's with 2 channels driven, then every channel you add to that the power goes down. Not all receivers mind you, but most under 1000 bucks.
Now, depending on your speakers, and the amount of drivers, the top half really doesn't use alot of power so this constant quest to bi-amp off a receiver baffles me, no offense to you, because we get this question 5 times a week....and your new, so a hardy welcome is in order. A receiver has x amount of power, you can slice it up any way you want, won't change a thing. Most receivers power drops off a cliff at 7 channel surround. So if you have a 5.1 system, and you use the extra channels to biamp the fronts, you just cut in half almost the power to all 7 channels. Follow me ? Now, if you have relatively easy speakers to drive, 8 ohm, with not alot of drivers or are on the smallish side, this won't matter as those types of speakers draw little power anyway, they don't represent a heavy load to the receiver. It's when people start using a mediocre receiver with big floorstanders in 7 channel surround and are cranking on the volume dial that they run into trouble. In an ideal world, a receiver with preouts is mostly recommended to be able to add an amplifier down the road should you start drooling over those A9's, or LSI's. Hope this helps a bit, and I'm sure others will chime in too.
Oh....almost forgot,again.....WELCOME TO THE MADNESS......hide your wallet, the guys and gals around here are great at spending your money. Actually, I am too, just wanted to give you the impression that I have a halo over my head....bent and rusty as it may be.
Well said! Welcome to the forum WagBoss, and I agree i'd hide your wallet haha. Nothing against you at all, but I don't understand why we don't have a sticky with responses like Tonyb's. We have the same question posted almost every other day and the same people usually give the same great answers. I just think it'd be a lot easier for everyone to find as a sticky, just my .02 -
You sorta said what I was saying but never really answered anything lol. How about this. If I run A9's in stereo from a 7.1, bi-amped from 1 receiver, with 100 watts per channel rating, will my speakers get like 180 watts of power, or 100, at max?
I have a yamaha rx-v671 with just 5.1 using 4 bookshelfs and a center, and some time this year I want to upgrade to towers but keep 5.1. I just want to know if I should be looking at like A7's or A5s. I don't mind robbing my center and surrounds to power 2 nice towers for music and stuff, and I can't afford an external amp unless its like <200 cuz I'm a student lol. -
Alot depends on the receiver and the speakers, but generally speaking, when you bi-amp with a receiver, your robbing peter to pay Paul. Yes the fronts will get alittle more power, but at the expense of taking it away from all the other channels. Very few receivers in the entry level to midline give out their rated power into all channels. Usually when you read 100 watts per channel, it's with 2 channels driven, then every channel you add to that the power goes down. Not all receivers mind you, but most under 1000 bucks.
Now, depending on your speakers, and the amount of drivers, the top half really doesn't use alot of power so this constant quest to bi-amp off a receiver baffles me, no offense to you, because we get this question 5 times a week....and your new, so a hardy welcome is in order. A receiver has x amount of power, you can slice it up any way you want, won't change a thing. Most receivers power drops off a cliff at 7 channel surround. So if you have a 5.1 system, and you use the extra channels to biamp the fronts, you just cut in half almost the power to all 7 channels. Follow me ? Now, if you have relatively easy speakers to drive, 8 ohm, with not alot of drivers or are on the smallish side, this won't matter as those types of speakers draw little power anyway, they don't represent a heavy load to the receiver. It's when people start using a mediocre receiver with big floorstanders in 7 channel surround and are cranking on the volume dial that they run into trouble. In an ideal world, a receiver with preouts is mostly recommended to be able to add an amplifier down the road should you start drooling over those A9's, or LSI's. Hope this helps a bit, and I'm sure others will chime in too.
Oh....almost forgot,again.....WELCOME TO THE MADNESS......hide your wallet, the guys and gals around here are great at spending your money. Actually, I am too, just wanted to give you the impression that I have a halo over my head....bent and rusty as it may be.
Well said! Welcome to the forum WagBoss, and I agree i'd hide your wallet haha. Nothing against you at all, but I don't understand why we don't have a sticky with responses like Tonyb's. We have the same question posted almost every other day and the same people usually give the same great answers. I just think it'd be a lot easier for everyone to find as a sticky, just my .02 -
Well said! Welcome to the forum WagBoss, and I agree i'd hide your wallet haha. Nothing against you at all, but I don't understand why we don't have a sticky with responses like Tonyb's. We have the same question posted almost every other day and the same people usually give the same great answers. I just think it'd be a lot easier for everyone to find as a sticky, just my .02
Well he didnt really even answer my question... lol -
Yeah, he did.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You sorta said what I was saying but never really answered anything lol. How about this. If I run A9's in stereo from a 7.1, bi-amped from 1 receiver, with 100 watts per channel rating, will my speakers get like 180 watts of power, or 100, at max?
I have a yamaha rx-v671 with just 5.1 using 4 bookshelfs and a center, and some time this year I want to upgrade to towers but keep 5.1. I just want to know if I should be looking at like A7's or A5s. I don't mind robbing my center and surrounds to power 2 nice towers for music and stuff, and I can't afford an external amp unless its like <200 cuz I'm a student lol.
Lets try again, I'm not up on that particular receiver, but I do know it's on the entry level side. Can you power A9's with it ? Sure, won't do them justice though. Can you bi-amp with that receiver ? Sure, little benefit if any, but your certainly free to give it a whirl if your heart desires. Would you be better off with the A7's ? Yep, easier load for that receiver.
That said, other variables to consider are how loud you play them. When you under power a speaker, and turn up the volume on the receiver to concert levels, that will put that receiver into clipping which will eat your brand new tweeters in your brand new speakers for lunch. Don't know how to better explain that.
Also don't get so hung up on watts, it's all about current and bigger speakers with alot of drivers need current to move all those drivers. Unfortunately the one thing lacking in most entry level to midline receivers is......current.
My advice to you, since your a student and if your set on that receiver is to move down to the A7 or A5, last thing you need is to start replacing tweeters. Also if music is your main gig, I have to ask you why your buying HT speakers ? Not that they can't do music good, just that there are alot of speaker makers out there with alot of speakers made for music first and foremost. Just asking is all, no offense ment.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Lets try again, I'm not up on that particular receiver, but I do know it's on the entry level side. Can you power A9's with it ? Sure, won't do them justice though. Can you bi-amp with that receiver ? Sure, little benefit if any, but your certainly free to give it a whirl if your heart desires. Would you be better off with the A7's ? Yep, easier load for that receiver.
That said, other variables to consider are how loud you play them. When you under power a speaker, and turn up the volume on the receiver to concert levels, that will put that receiver into clipping which will eat your brand new tweeters in your brand new speakers for lunch. Don't know how to better explain that.
Also don't get so hung up on watts, it's all about current and bigger speakers with alot of drivers need current to move all those drivers. Unfortunately the one thing lacking in most entry level to midline receivers is......current.
My advice to you, since your a student and if your set on that receiver is to move down to the A7 or A5, last thing you need is to start replacing tweeters. Also if music is your main gig, I have to ask you why your buying HT speakers ? Not that they can't do music good, just that there are alot of speaker makers out there with alot of speakers made for music first and foremost. Just asking is all, no offense ment.
Well I use it for like 60% HT and 40% music. I already own the receiver so can't change that. What I really want to know is WHY there is no benefit of bi-amping, I want someone to explain technically why the speakers are not getting more power when bi-amping from the same receiver. -
Yeah, he did.
No, I know that it doesn't make a difference, that is what everyone says. But I want to know WHY, like in technical terms why it doesn't get more power to the fronts when bi-amping. -
No, I know that it doesn't make a difference, that is what everyone says. But I want to know WHY, like in technical terms why it doesn't get more power to the fronts when bi-amping.
Because your receiver is rated at 90wpc, which in reality is more like 60 with 5 speakers being driven. If you "bi-amp" and try to run all 7 channels, it will drop to more like 40wpc. Also, you cannot just add the power of channels together it's not that simple, most people assume oh I can get 180wpc because 90 + 90 is 180. The upper binding post for the tweeter will not need much power at all anyways.
I'm not 100% sure (someone correct me if i'm wrong) I read somewhere by "bi-amping" an 8ohm speaker it can increase the resistance at the receiver to 2 channels @ 16ohms which is the same thing as having it wired through one channel at 8ohms, and keeping the jumpers in place. -
That is wrong; each set of binding posts is still only 8 ohms.I'm not 100% sure (someone correct me if i'm wrong) I read somewhere by "bi-amping" an 8ohm speaker it can increase the resistance at the receiver to 2 channels @ 16ohms which is the same thing as having it wired through one channel at 8ohms, and keeping the jumpers in place. -
It depends on your set up. I have bi amped my RTI'4 with very good results. Of course the Larger speakers take more Power, so it really depends on your power source. I have never liked the Onkyo that much for music but when I bi-amped, the configuration greatly improved the sound in my system.
Worked for me. -
No, I know that it doesn't make a difference, that is what everyone says. But I want to know WHY, like in technical terms why it doesn't get more power to the fronts when bi-amping.
Lots of variables, not as cut and dry as the answer your looking for. Generally speaking, in 2 channel mode, bi-amping from a receiver may give more power to the fronts. But that configuration is negated when in 7 channel surround. Follow ?
Example would be your standard entry level receiver, lets say at 100 watts per channel, 2 channels driven. You bi-amp the fronts, so your using 4 channels from that receiver. In 4 channel, it's probably putting out 80 watts per channel, so figure 160 watts are now going to the fronts with 4 channels of the receiver being used. Which is fine for 2 channel listening. Now you want to pop in a movie, using all 7 channels. That receiver now drops to 30 watts a channel, and since you have the fronts bi-amped that gives you 60 watts per speaker.....and if you are loosey goosey with that volume dial, the receiver will clip, and your tweeters will say "see ya".
So short answer is yes, you can bi-amp from the receiver and give more power to the fronts, but the bigger the speaker, the more load it represents to that receiver, bi-amped or not. Which is why we recommend amplifiers for bigger speakers to deliver the current they need to sound their best. You can look thru some threads here of those who added amplifiers and I doubt you will find one who said it didn't make a difference. The response is usually "WOW, so this is what these speakers are suppose to sound like." Those who under power speakers post threads like " My speakers don't sound right " or " One of my tweeters isn't working " or "Not enough dynamics " or " They sound muffled." Of coarse other variables come into play too.
I believe we gave you some good background info on the positives and negatives of bi-amping from a receiver. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.....depends. Feel free to try it out, tell us what you think, who knows you may like it.
Also I want you to think about what a receiver is. A tuner, processor, amplifier, pre-amp, Dac, all rolled into one. Now look at all those componants seperately stacked one ontop of the other and compare it to a receiver. You think some compromises were made to get all that in a small box the size of a standard receiver ? Of coarse there was, with the biggest difference being seperately, each componant has their own power supply, in a receiver, there is only one power supply shared by everything.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Bi-amping from the receiver Does Not increase the power to the speakers. It reduces the overall power out from the reciever to all speakers. The front, Bi-amped speakers will not be getting more power than the other speakers. The front bi-amped speakers will be amplified differently than the rest of the system. Could be good, might be a major F up. Depends on a number of factors such as room size, speaker size, quality of AVR, how loud you listen. Common sense comes into play here it's your system and your moneys on the line in case you blow something up.
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That is wrong; each set of binding posts is still only 8 ohms.
Good to know! Haha but I read it somewhere on the internet so it must be true.
