Random installation questions...

sntnsupermen131

I'm putting the finishing touches on the system today, and i have a few questions...might be adding some more as i go along

remote turn on wire:
is using 18awg wire to the ground and to caps for the 12v power source ok?

grounds:
I have run out of 4awg wire...
i had enough, but the way i installed the amps was stupid, instead of having all the power wire terminals facing the middle, theyre facing out, so im using that much more wire...and thus i ran out cuz of my own stupidity
and im not going to turn them around b/c im just too lazy
question is...i have my amp that powers my components...putting out roughly 200watts to each crossover
i had 8awg running to the amp ever since i first got it installed til now, now im using 4awg, but i ran out when it came to the ground, if i use 8awg for the ground instead of 4, do you think this will cause a ground loop?
the 8awg will be run from the amp to a distro block, so only about 1-2ft will be used b/t there

distro block for ground:
the way i have it set up, all my the grounds from the amps are going to a distro block(unfused of course), from there, ill have about 4 inches of 1/0awg that runs to a screw which i will have for the ground
the distro block is setup with 4 4awg terminals on one side, and 3 1/0awg terminals on the other
question is...i need to hook up a ground for the caps too, i can run 1/0awg to the block (From the cap) even though its on the same side as the 1/0awg which will be the actual ground right?
i dont have hardly any experience in distro blocks...and im sorry if i wrote a novel for a simple question, i just didnt want to leave anything out that might be important
thanks
-Cody

MTXMAN

you're remote turn on is a very low current line, so you should be just fine with 18ga.

with the short distance i think you "should" be fine with 8ga, pbd will know better than i but i would imagine that it shouldn't cause a problem, the other posibility is to double the 8ga (2wires to the same terminal) i'd think that that would solve the problem, PBD feel free to smack me if what i just said was complete BS, i'm going off of my commonsense here instead of any actual experience with this setup...

as far as the ground block... if all the terminals are connected i'd assume that the distroblock is just sending it all to the "sink" if you will, which would be the screw. so i'd imagine that no matter what you hooked up where it'd all go down the voltage line. electricity follows the path of least resistance so it'd all go to the screw. again i could be off on this and i'm asuming that all the terminals are connected...

sntnsupermen131

well i had to go to town anyways so i went by radio shack and picked up some 16awg speaker wire, split it, and used that for the ground and power for the relay
all the terminals are connected...and i was thinking there would be no problem...but just making sure
and i also think that since the 8awg is so short...and i used it b4, that it shouldnt be much of a problem either...
im almost done...
pics will be put up when im done and i can find my camera...
-Cody

sntnsupermen131

FINAL VERDICT IS...
drum roll please...
its not working...
well it was...
all the power and ground wiring is done
turned the key on...everything lit up
took the cover off my amp, nudged a wire connected to my caps...sparks flew b/t the buss bar...fuse blew...
not just the regular 50amp agu fuses...
it was the 150amp anl fuse
and i had 2...but one is MIA
i really dont know what happened either...thats what gets me...
i mean...the bars are touching all the time...its the way its designed...but i dont know why sparks flew
if i wouldve tightened down the screws on the caps it wouldntve happened either...but i thought they were tight...they looked tight...but i guess they werent
i wonder if best buy carries those...i doubt it
but at least i know everything works
and until i get the fuse im only going to have back speakers...thank god theyre not amped yet...or i would have nothing
soooo CRAP
the only thing i have left to do is screw down distribution blocks and i need to move my caps to center them b/t my amps
hook up the speaker wire/rca's and a new fuse and adjust all the settings and then everything should be in working order
and i went to the car wash today...had $4 in quarters...put $2 in...after that went out i put another dollar in...didnt work...put another dollar in...didnt work
so i had to go to the automatic car wash...minimum is $5...i had $5 and a half washed truck...so i went ahead and washed it...and plus no one actually works there so i couldnt get my money back
so i have no money...and i need fuses...damn...
-Cody

CDNITE

Cody did you charge the Cap first? That spark usually happens from a ground loop or a uncharged Cap. And try to use all the same size wire to and from an amp if you don't it could affect the MOSFET power supply or burn out the smaller cable if the curent is high enough. For a short time you'll be ok, but try and get all 4, 2, or 0/1 gauge.

Good Luck
--Chris "REX" Hoeppner
Circuit City Road Shop 3220

sntnsupermen131

actually i had a lot of problems charging the cap, ill look into it
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

---- will reply to post later --- dinner time... but...

this is where cody says "wow i'm glad i had that 150 A fuse intead of the 300A one"

here's hoping nothing burned up.

PoweredByDodge

as far as the distro block and grounding caps go --- the side that the hole is on is irrelevant for an unfused block... its just a big piece of steel... so you can hook the 4 outputs on one side to amps and two of the three on the other side to amps (or caps or whatever) as long as just one of those 0/1 holes goes to ground (which you've already got hooked up so dont worry about it).

as far as the 8 gauge verusus 4 gauge ground thing on the 2 channel amp -- just run an 8 gauge power and 8 gauge ground line... i would not mix 8 and 4 or whatever.

you can do like MTXMAN said and twist together two 8's for the ground... and while it would give you the functionality (it'd work), it would be "ghetto"... and with all the work you've put into this truck so far, i dont think you want ghetto.

the only time i ever did anything like that is i was hookin up my 81000d's and due to a similar "not enough wire" dillema, i put the 2 gauge on the power terminal and the 0 gauge on the ground. funny thing is there is so much insulation on the streetwires lines and so little on the RF lines that the SW 2 gauge is the same thickness as the RF 0 lines. anywho -- i wouldn't make a habit of it... i'd just do 8 and 8 not 4 and 8 ((funny thing is - i FOUND the motherload of 2 gauge that i had left over from before, only **** was about 6 months later... how do ya like that for ****)).

it will not harm your power supply in a 2 second time frame... all it would do is give you a funny current flow (worst case scenario) and maybe give a hum or something funky out of the speakers, but i really highly doubt it would harm the amp.

mosfet supplies dont work any differently than BJT supplies... they're more efficient, but they're just as (if not more) bulletproof (the international rectifier Z44 is perhaps the most generic, widely used, cheap as hell, but none the less durable little chips you can buy). ... but amp companies write "mosfet" on the outside of the box and people think its the second coming of christ. **** they could probably write "Doped Substrate" (any transistor of any type -- actually any diode of pretty much any type) at this point and people'd be like "oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" and want an amp with a 'doped substrate' with no realization of what they're actually paying $$$ for.


--- 20 gauge is ok for remote turn on from head to relay 85 and from relay 86 to ground... from 12V to relay to relay 87 use 18 or 16, and then you can run like a single 18 or 16 out of pin 30 (and then split off to each amp with 22 or 20) or just run 22 or 20 from each amp to pin 30.


--- and those buss bars are not supposed to touch.. if they're designed to be in contact there must be some piece of plastic or rubber between them, you CANNOT Have the positive bus bar and negative bus bar touching each other, or yes you'll get a big **** spark and fuses will go pop pop poppity pop. i would diagnose and correct that problem before you isntall another fuse.

sntnsupermen131

hmm...the buss bars seem like they have to touch...theyre lightening audio...POS...i shouldve got the fosgate one...but i was trying to save money
i think ill leave the 8awg ground for right now
buy some more wire asap
im trying to keep all my wire blue...and if worse comes to worse and i cant find any blue wire...i have the old 4awg
if i use the 8awg..i might run out of 8awg...
lol
cuz i really only bought enough to wire up the 201S...which i dont have yet...and im kinda glad i dont...bcuz if i did...i would have no speakers working...at least now i have the rear 4x6s running off the deck
my room is a lot cleaner...i got rid of all the boxes and ****
and i broke the stupid toggle switch for the lights on my brush guard...radio shack POS
and i have no money for a new one...
and being around christmas time money is only going to get tighter
and i still need to replace the passenger side tweet
ive gotten use to the sound stage being totally f***ed without it
i was going to screw the distro block and stuff in today...but i was just too tired...i stayed in the house most of the day being lazy
im going to look at the buss bars...see if theres some other way i could install them...if not...put a piece of rubber b/t them and buy the rf buss bars
or hell...i could just take one out
put it back in when i get the other buss bar...that way i could stall
get my tweet first
man i wish i had money
stop eating or something to save money...lol
just thinking out loud
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

well busses are sposed to be close -- sometimes pretty close, but not touch --- i mean if positive touches negative --- i dont think i need to get into that one... jump a piece of wire from + to - and you already know what that's gonna do.

take a nap - good idea - things are clearer and easier to fix when you're rested.

sntnsupermen131

the plan now is to just take one of the caps out
im going to see if i can find the fuse today...and see if i can find someone that sells blue 4awg by the foot
wish me luck...as i think ive had about as much bad luck as i can take
-Cody

MTXMAN

Circuit City should have blue Tsunami 4ga and they should sell it by the foot

sntnsupermen131

i got the 4awg and the fuse...
im going to take one of the caps out and just hook up one for right now
but the tweeter, then buy the buy the rockford buss bar...going to get started right now
-Cody

sntnsupermen131

its working!
finally...
to do list (in order):
1. put the blue 4awg wire to the ground for the amp that has an 8awg ground
2. make a ground out of 1/0awg wire for the caps instead of the silver 4awg im using now
3. screw in all the distribution caps
4. line up the caps and screw them in (right now theyre not in the center)
5. buy tweeter
6. buy rockford buss bar
7. buy RF 201S and momo 4x6s
8. new speaker wire and rcas
9. bass lights
10. look back and reflect...cuz i think ill be done
well now its time to clean the truck up and but the back seat back in
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

congratulations, salutations, conflagrations, and such...



hey at least now u wont wanna kill yourself.




... i realized today i've been driving around for months with my subs out of phase with my highs... flipped them... oh my god its louder, not a ton, but a little... i had the highs x-ed so high didn't do that much... but enuff.


and when the hell did Tsunami come in to play -- everybody around here sells fkin Tsunami ****... looks like a bunch of cheapo junk to me... streetwires gear puts it to shame and monster cable - who i loathe - is much much much much better stuff.

the only thing that Tsunami makes that i like are their fuses -- they go up to 80 A AGU fuses, those are hard to find now a days... usually have to order them.

PoweredByDodge

oh FYI - i got stuck with 80 dollars worth of Tsunami stuff when i did the two batteries in my grandfather's truck -- terminals, ends, fuse holders... blah blah -- wire... blah... *hack up lung* -- but nobody had anything else...

given the opportunity i'd have told him to put the truck on blocks for two days while i waited for sounddomain to deliver a bunch of stinger gear. stinger is cheap, and good... and lightning audio terminals are like 4 four gauge terminals for 3 dollars.. and they're decent too.

sntnsupermen131

what is the correct way to set your gains?
i tried the method of turning the gains all the way down, turn the volume all the way up, and turned it up until i heard distortion
problem is i didnt hear distortion and the gain was all the way up
this was b/c i borrowed a friends nelly country grammar cd...it has a lot of bass...
i have 6 volt preouts
i dont think its rms though
i would guess 3.5 volts rms
-Cody

TheAudioSpectru

I kinda like Tsunami,The new 9.9 series Rca's they came out with are real nice,and they look great and ther easy to run,I really like the High amperage battery power distribution system they got too.I like all there fuse holders and distribution blocks too.Tsunami is all we sell except for Rockford ANL fuse holders,and some rockford rca's...

C-Man

I have a Tsunami cap that I like so far. Digital top, solid chrome, looks pimp as hell and has served it's purpose. Cost less than most digital tops I've seen too. I haven't seen any of their wiring yet.

PoweredByDodge

RE - GAINS ---

---

I'll give u the conservative setup, as its the least likely to be "wrong".

set your volume on the headunit to like 2/3 (if pioneer still goes up to 50 or 55, i would say 40 is the good "set point" as at 40 on the pioneer 5500 that we've got it starts to get funny)

disconnect the remote turn on or the RCA's to your 2 channel amp for highs (we just wanna do the subs first)... and unplug the RCA going into one of the sub amps... do one at a time.

set the crossover where u want it (80 or 90 or whatever)... dial the bass boost down to nothing. dial the gain up until any of the following...

1- you start to hear dist.
2- you think you're overpowering the sub.
3- you are visibly overexcurting the sub.
4- you feel its loud enough for your tastes.

more than likely #4 is gonna be what it is.

do the same for the other sub amp (plug that one in, disconnect the first one... set it to match the level of the first one).

dick with the bass boost on them both a little -- dont go over about 1/3 bass boost (assuming its a 18 db gain at most).

plug in the amp for highs (leave the sub amps plugged in).

dial up your fronts until your happy with them... more than likely you've got plenty of power and dont need to set the amp at its limit.. instead set it where you think there's a good blend between subs and highs...

that's about the best i can tell u dude.


RE - TSUNAMI----

---

i just found the quality of the Tsunami 4 gauge AGU fuse holder (the "premium" one with white ends) to be very lacking -- the strength and thickness of the inputs is shoddy and the allen head set screw is not only an uncommon sized allen head size (or its just milled poorly) but its soft metal... very soft... so much so that the old one i had from radio shack is of stiffer grade.

for the price they charge, i find them of poor quality.

again, lightning audio and stinger make much better "budjet" wire / terminals / fuse holdes / capacitors... and streetwires and phoenix gold tend to make very very nice mid-high grade stuff.

i'm picky though.

MTXMAN

i'm not that big on Tsunami myself, i thought it was a bad idea for CC to go to them over Monster, however tsu is cheaper at cost so i got a 150ft roll of 12ga speaker wire for 35 bucks :D i was pretty happy about that one . I think one of the reasons that everybody's switching is cause Fishman sold out to them (people say that Fishman is supposed to be one of the best installers around) so his name goes on it, companies buy it, his pockets get a nice little lining...

PoweredByDodge

ooooh

---

the fishman -- man who has stupid looking fish tanks in his cars and traumatizes the poor creatures by constantly transplanting them in different habitats which fks with the PH level of the water and cuts 75% of their lifespan out...

ya -- that guy... lol...

he is a great installer - does amazing stuff... so ya - that'd be like having "Tiger Woods" on the side of some Titlest golf balls -- everybody'd buy em.

... i still feel its cheapo gear... power wire / speaker wire / terminals -- that i wont **** about cuz cheap of that is good.

but fuse holders and patch cables -- hell i'd rather use a 7 dollar "indoor" ANL fuse holder and wrap it in tape than use an AGU one that's gonna fall apart on me. -- i wont even get started on signal cable.