My center channel needs to be louder!!

hochpt21

I have a Sony STR-DG1000 receiver, M70's in front, M30's for surrounds and a PSW10 sub. My center is a CS1. I got everything set up last night and the system sounds awesome. However, I watched the Dark Knight to test it out and the dialogue was relatively quiet. I turned the center channel to +10 and it was good...but on the quiet end of good. I am sitting about 12 feet from the center speaker and the total room size is about 15' wide x 20' deep.

I would rather not upgrade the center since I just bought it, but is that the answer??

Any help is appreciated.

rebuy

Simple solution, Instead of turning the center up to 10, turn the mains down. If they're set to zero and still too loud when the center is ten back off the volume on the mains. try running them at -3 or -4 or whatever it takes to balance everything out.
Just my .02 hope this helps.

Conradicles

My Pioneer calibration turns the mains down -4.5 and as stated above that may help. Also notice some movies have less dialog in the center than others. Try some other movies to see if that is some of the issue. Enjoy!

hochpt21

You're right...that does sound simple. Obviously, this is my first attempt at anything involving more than two speakers. I'll test it out when I get home tonight.

On another note...I was listening to the volume at -18db. At what level am I pushing the receiver to hard?

mdaudioguy

When you say,

got everything set up last night and the system sounds awesome.

does that mean you ran your AVR's auto speaker calibration program (Digital Cinema Auto Calibration, or DCAC)?? This should set levels properly for you, and then you can tweak it from there.

hochpt21

Yes, I ran the auto calibration program. I then turned on a jazz music channel from the cable box and adjusted the surrounds very slightly till it seemed like everything blended. Then I watched the movie and adjusted the center to +10 so the dialogue seemed appropriate to match the action scenes.

Of course my "everything sounds awesome" is in comparison to nothing as this is my first surround system.

mdaudioguy

One of the assumptions here is that your fronts are set considerable lower than the center. What were the settings that DCAC resulted in?

Lietuvis91

A higher crossover point on the center channel will help to clear up dialogue, not necessarily make it louder, just bring it forward. So if you can adjust the cross over frequency on the center channel, try something higher than what the calibration set it to. I had to do this to make dialogue sound right in my system.

hochpt21

I finally got the chance to take a look at all of the recommendations. After I ran the DCAC, the only settings that changed were the distances.

I tried to lower the volume on the fronts with the 'level settings' option...it lets me raise or lower the center and the surrounds, but on the fronts it only lets me adjust the balance (L/R).

I ended up changing the distances on the fronts to 6' and the distance on the center to 13' even though they are basically the same. It kinda works.

Any other thoughts??

tonyb

Might be time for a new receiver.

hochpt21

Anything you could recommend for my setup? I just bought the Sony for $200 used. The guy had his original receipt from two years ago for $600 so I figured it was a good deal, but my knowledge is limited.

hochpt21

Also the rest of the speakers sound good. The room shakes during action scenes. Could it just be the low-end center. I have heard really good things about the cs10 and 20?

tonyb

Could be, the cs1 is pretty much entry level. The 20 is way better and most here think so too. As far as receivers go, maybe a newer HK since you already have one and obviously must like their sound. A used pioneer elite would work too, like an SC 05,07, 25,27,33,37. Lots of us use Pioneers, Onkyo, HK. Get a used one to save some coin but get one with preouts, sooner or later you'll want big floorstanders that need an amp and preouts are the avenue to get you there.

hochpt21

Sounds good. The HK I got as part of a package for my M50's. The guy basically threw it in. I hooked it up to replace an entry level Sony and I do really like the sound. I'll keep my eye out for a good deal on a 20 and/or a better receiver. According to reviews the 20 seems to be well worth the money compared to the 10.

Loud & Clear

The CS2 is the correct match for the Monitor 70s, no? I ran newegg's series 2 Monitors - the 70s and the CS2 - and had great results.

Personally, if I were going to mix and match parts of a series that weren't recommended for one another, I would make the CENTER SPEAKER the one that erred to the larger size. Dialogue is just so critical for movie watching.

You might even consider using two pairs of 30s and selling the 70s if this is almost exclusively a home theater application. In that scenario you could keep the CS1 and recoup some cash while still having your 5.1 system. But my bottom line here is never have a smaller center than what is recommended for your fronts. If you want to keep the 70s (nice speakers) you should think about returning/selling the CS1 and getting the CS2.

Willow

Did you connect your speaker cable the right way? maybe you crossed the + & - ....just a thought
When you watch TV is it ok?

hochpt21

No, it's connected the right way. When I turn on a music channel on tv, I have to turn the center back down. It just seems to be quiet during "talking" scenes in movies. I would say maybe it's just my opinion, but my wife kept asking me to turn it up during those scenes and then we had to turn it down during action scenes.

I am going to run the auto calibration again. I think maybe all my tweaking with the settings has it messed up.

hochpt21

Maybe I will look into the CS2. There are a number of comments in reviews at Newegg similar to the one below...

I'm a new fan of Polk Audio!!! This is top part of the M70, so it goes great with my 2 new Monitor 70s. The CS2 really sounds great!! Now I can hear people talking without being blown away when an action scene or music starts during a movie.

CS2 in cherry is $110 which seems like a good price. Black is $150 right now which matches my sysem, so maybe I'll wait or check out ebay.

tonyb

hochpt21 wrote: »

No, it's connected the right way. When I turn on a music channel on tv, I have to turn the center back down. It just seems to be quiet during "talking" scenes in movies. I would say maybe it's just my opinion, but my wife kept asking me to turn it up during those scenes and then we had to turn it down during action scenes.

I am going to run the auto calibration again. I think maybe all my tweaking with the settings has it messed up.

My wife does the same thing, and I don't even have a center channel. Thats the way some movies are mixed. The action scenes are more dynamic which makes the voices sound muffled in quiet passages. Think about when you go to the movie theater, the action scenes are also dynamic but so is the total volume level. I tell my wife all the time that she never complains about it at the theater, why at home ? Her reply is because she can.......woman, can't live with them, can't kill them, can't send them back.

Loud & Clear

hochpt21 wrote: »

Maybe I will look into the CS2. There are a number of comments in reviews at Newegg similar to the one below...

I'm a new fan of Polk Audio!!! This is top part of the M70, so it goes great with my 2 new Monitor 70s. The CS2 really sounds great!! Now I can hear people talking without being blown away when an action scene or music starts during a movie.

CS2 in cherry is $110 which seems like a good price. Black is $150 right now which matches my sysem, so maybe I'll wait or check out ebay.

Yeah, I think I bought my black one for $99 during one of their promotions. If you wait a bit they'll have another deal on them. I think you'll be happier with the CS2.

Lietuvis91

I had the same problem with my CS2, this has nothing to do with the speaker, maybe a little to do with the receiver (may be low on power), and everything to do with setting things up correctly.

I was new to it once too and it took me a little while to get this right, so two things:

1) I had the cs2 under my tv, probably not even 2 feet off the ground, with a table in front of it(just barely up to the speaker level). The center is very sensitive to where you put it, how you point it and you have to make sure there are no obstructions between the speaker and the seating position. Try raising it closer to ear level if you can. You can also flip the speaker upside down(and flip the grill to match) so that it points UP. This might help.

2) These Centers are not very good at carrying lower frequencies(especially if your avr is on the weak side), so I'm not sure if you can adjust just the center on your avr, but you need to have it running no lower than 100hz or 120hz. My cs2 became very clear at 120 and sucked at 80.

I still think that speaker placement and the avr I had, had a lot to do with me having to adjust the settings this way, but that is just what I had to work with, and it was much better once I adjusted the frequency.

I would not be running out to buy the CS2, it is not THAT much better, and your avr probably won't push it well enough anyway. It is easier and cheaper to make your CS1 work. I think it's very doable.

Those are some things you should address, because I can't think of anything else that could be the problem. Well, besides a movie being encoded a certain way, as tonyb mentions. Good luck!

Willow

Try another couple movies, maybe not action movies since dialogue 1- is crap 2- not meant to really have dialogue. I say try a drama or something along that genre.

mrbiron

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CS2-BLACK-Center-Channel-Speaker-Polk-Audio-/230598120659?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item35b0b814d3#ht_3810wt_905

If you have to buy a CS2, get it from Polks Ebay store. The item will be used/refurbished but many here (including myself) have ordered from the ebay store and swore the item was brand-spakin new. Just a thought.

$112 shipped.

hochpt21

The center is sitting about two feet off the ground and pointing straight ahead which points at the coffee table/my knees. I stuck a dvd under the front to tip it up and now its pointing at my face. I tried it out on the Dark Knight, GI Joe and a chick flick(will not name). Dark Knight was the one we had issues with the other night and was better this time around. Although, the comments about the different audio mixings make sense as GI Joe was much better in the dialogue scenes and the chick flick seemed just right.

Thanks for the help all. I'll see what the wife says tonight.

bobsauto49

In my 1st speaker set-up i had troubles with my cs1,and an Onkyo TX-SR608! I could barely hear the dialouge! So i ordered a CS2,to not much change! I then realized i was listening to my movies in Dolby Digital THX mode,which in my set-up was horrible for dialouge! I switch the listening mode to All CH Stereo Dolby Digital,and WOW, major difference! Dont know if this applies to your dillema,just thought i'd put my .02 in!

Loud & Clear

Pretty sure you can flip that center upside down and have it point more towards your ears. And I still say that the 70s are going to overwhelm the CS1 with volume and dynamic volume.

Lietuvis91

He clearly has a speaker placement issue, and very likely settings adjustments on the avr itself can help the situation a good bit. I would not waste money on a CS2. If you are going to buy anything, Invest in furniture to place the speaker correctly, and take the time to try different settings on the avr.

Lietuvis91

Loud & Clear wrote: »

And I still say that the 70s are going to overwhelm the CS1 with volume and dynamic volume.

Insignificant if setup properly.

My and his experience is your proof:

bobsauto49 wrote: »

In my 1st speaker set-up i had troubles with my cs1,and an Onkyo TX-SR608! I could barely hear the dialouge! So i ordered a CS2,to not much change! I then realized i was listening to my movies in Dolby Digital THX mode,which in my set-up was horrible for dialouge! I switch the listening mode to All CH Stereo Dolby Digital,and WOW, major difference! Dont know if this applies to your dillema,just thought i'd put my .02 in!

Loud & Clear

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

Insignificant if setup properly.

I think Polk should stop recommending center speakers to match their fronts then. Seems a waste of time and effort on their part. Instead, Polk should just have a recorded message of you saying, "randomly choose any combination of speakers that strike your fancy and make sure you set it up properly. Happy Holidays."

Lietuvis91

Loud & Clear wrote: »

I think Polk should stop recommending center speakers to match their fronts then. Seems a waste of time and effort on their part. Instead, Polk should just have a recorded message of you saying, "randomly choose any combination of speakers that strike your fancy and make sure you set it up properly. Happy Holidays."

Not the point I was getting across. Since the speaker is already purchased, the marginal difference is not significant enough to justfy the expence, especially in a situation where power from the avr is in short supply, and the problem being speaker placement and not the speaker itself.

If this was a setup being planned from scratch, then of course you would go with a cs2 for a somewhat better match.

Having had the same issues as the OP with my CS2 and knowing how to get around it makes you realize it's not the speaker's fault, and is something that can be resolved without throwing more money at the "problem".

Great sounding systems don't just come from great components, they also come from knowing and taking the time to set them up properly

hochpt21

Thanks for all the info. Had the day off and have been messing with the placement of the center channel today. That seems to have helped fairly significantly, as well as (my fault) trying other movies. Tried the Dark Knight again (3rd time) and the dialogue just doesn't seem clear compared with other movies with exact same settings. Watched "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" and the system sounded the best it has yet.

I didn't re-run the auto calibration because things seemed to improve with the speaker placement.

As this is my first setup, I will definitely be keeping my eyes open for upgrades. Tony gave me some good suggestions for an avr. A few questions also.

1) Would it make sense to run an amp to the 70's with my current avr...or just a better avr?
2) What would be the best upgrade at center with my setup...the 20 or the 2?
3) For a sub, would the 505 be a worthwhile upgrade as well.

Just getting my current gear setup, but looking at other gear out there as well...is this a disease???