? On Speaker Placement Now-a-days

smglbrth

Believe me, this is not meant to be a redundant topic but I do have a question for the "new" generation concerning the topic at hand. Many moons ago speaker placement meant that they both had to be 6-8 feet apart with an inward facing posture, toward the listener. This is the way I've pretty much always done it for strickly two channel listening (with the exception of my experiement with SDA's). I see many pics now where people have their two speakers facing directly front with no inward angles towards the listener. I'm curious if this is just personal taste or instructed by the manufacturers now. I realize that most run a home theater/2 channel within the same system and that with HT the speakers face directly front, as did mine until I finally got to split my equipment up into 2 channel and a separate HT. Maybe I'm making too much of this but, like I said, am just curious. I haven't looked at a new speaker manual in around 20 years or so (the SDA's I had never came with one).

On the same note now that I have separate 2 channel back I didn't realize what I had been missing, or, what I used to have. I haven't used tone controls since I hooked it back up (in our new place) and don't need to. Bass is abundant (more so than I ever had before without tone controls) and vocals, cymbals and such are smooth and detailed. All of this in a practically bare room on a long wall. I never realized how "clutter" can screw sound up so much. In fact, today I listened to Toto IV and was blown away (again). Sometimes I think that this album should be ranked up there with Fleetwood's Rumors (some songs anyway).

Oh yes, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Jim Shearer

Speaker placement and orientation depend upon your specific room and speakers. Placement will have significant effects on sound stage, imaging, and bass performance. General rule of thumb is to start with something like 8' apart and 18-24" from the wall, assuming a bass-reflex unit like a Polk Monitor floor stander. But maybe you have a dipole (e.g. Maggies or an open baffle) which need to be further out from the wall.

Experiment to find what works best for you!

IOW, it all depends....
Jim

smglbrth

Ya, I know the general rules, or rules of thumb concerning placement. Was just wondering if speaker manufacturers actually stated in their manuals to keep them pointed straight forward instead of "toed" (like it was in the "old" days).

Drenis

My room is stupid small and im sure I dont need to toe mine in the slightest, but I do it to ensure i follow the basics with placement.

Face

Depending on the speaker I use anywhere from 0 toe to 45 degrees, it has nothing to do with modern or not. It's what the speaker, room, and personal preferences call for.

decal

smglbrth wrote: »

Ya, I know the general rules, or rules of thumb concerning placement. Was just wondering if speaker manufacturers actually stated in their manuals to keep them pointed straight forward instead of "toed" (like it was in the "old" days).

May I ask why? I'm facinated by other people's thought process on these things. I believe one should position speakers where they sound good to them regardless of what anyone else says.including the manufacturer.

Drenis

Face wrote: »

Depending on the speaker I use anywhere from 0 toe to 45 degrees, it has nothing to do with modern or not. It's what the speaker, room, and personal preferences call for.

If you enjoy lifting 80lbspeakers micro inches then by all means. Not all of us simply have the room. I use a tape measure and each speaker gets the same distances from the side wall and back wall and measured toe in. Its barely toed in but your right. I shouldn't have used the term modern but more so "peer pressure". I would rather have them flush but my room is very small. Isn't the general rule of thumb to have the tweeters centered just to the out side of your ears when in the center?

Face

Nope. Some speakers do well toed in behind you, some in front, if that's what you're referring to. You'll need to experiment while listening to your favorite music. And my towers are over 100lbs. :P

Drenis

Touche I suppose. I found I did NOT like the sound of my RTI A's when they were toed in front of the listening position (I actually has the tweeters straight on axis with my ears). I backed the toe off so they are slightly (I think 1 1/2") in off center flush and I think it gives the best sound. But I've never done real time changes all in one shot. Usually listen to it like that for a month change it up... rinse repeat. Also, my towers are just a hair under 5 1/2 feet between them from the inner cabinets.

smglbrth

Kind of sorry I brought it up, now.

decal - I just think that what manufacturers say about their speakers, as in how to position them to get the best sound, is still a very good place to start. START, mind you, not end. If not then SDA's wouldn't have to be 'specifically' positioned I suppose. You wouldn't be a phsyciatrist would you (fascination with thought processes and all that)? Just kidding, I like your wording.

Face

smglbrth wrote: »

Kind of sorry I brought it up, now.

Why?

decal - I just think that what manufacturers say about their speakers, as in how to position them to get the best sound, is still a very good place to start. START, mind you, not end. If not then SDA's wouldn't have to be 'specifically' positioned I suppose. You wouldn't be a psychiatrist would you (fascination with thought processes and all that)? Just kidding, I like your wording.

Well, SDA's were designed specifically to be placed near the rear wall and with 0 toe. And the Klipsch corner horns were designed to be corner loaded otherwise there is no bass. Most OEM's don't use those kind specifics when designing a speaker, but as we already know, SDA's are special.

decal

smglbrth wrote: »

Kind of sorry I brought it up, now.

decal - I just think that what manufacturers say about their speakers, as in how to position them to get the best sound, is still a very good place to start. START, mind you, not end. If not then SDA's wouldn't have to be 'specifically' positioned I suppose. You wouldn't be a phsyciatrist would you (fascination with thought processes and all that)? Just kidding, I like your wording.

No, I'm not a shrink but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!!!

smglbrth

I know this is a boring, yada, yada, yada topic but my original question still has not been answered. Sometimes you get to the point in life when you've explored more than enough options, would like to explore more, but time (and life) has a way of keeping you from doing just that. Whether it be employment commitments, family (along with that read "not much extra $") or whatever that comes with getting up in age. I was gung ho in my younger years on many things, audio being one. I still like nice audio equipment and rich, full sound. However, time is catching up and I don't get to explore dozens of options like I used to. Which is why I like forums like this. You can get the new generations point of view, see what they like to do and see if it's something that you haven't thought of or tried yet. We can all learn, no matter the age. I don't know everything about this hobby but at this point I'm thinking of a retirement system already. Dang, guess you never know...

tonyb

There was a question in all that ?

CoolJazz

I'll take a shot at the OP's question, but from the sound of it, you may not like the answer....

Many moons ago, the recommendations may have had more to do with the style of recording techniques of the day and that stereo was a newer thing. Don't know if you mean that far back or not.

Today you could simply go with the manufacturers recommendations, though they are usually listed even then as a suggested starting point. The reason being that factors come into play that have to do with your individual setting. If your front end is cheaper and a tad harder sounding, then pointing straight ahead and being off axis a bit, might sound better to your ear. Or if you're in a narrower room, bringing them in more direct, may get less wall first reflections and better sound.

Tweeter style may also play into differences. Again the pattern from the HF driver may be better to your ear when you've gotten further off axis. A bigger speaker may have been designed for a larger room and may need to be pointed differently if you've put it into a bit more of a moderate sized room.

So I wouldn't say style has changed all that much, but you may well have better results if you do take the time to try different things than a manufacturers starting point!

CJ

smglbrth

tonyb wrote: »

There was a question in all that ?

Maybe sometimes I think too much?

Recording techniques are a definite sway of things, that's for sure. Compressing the heck out of music didn't help anything, at all. It probably has more to do with the individual speaker I suppose. Some are more geared for music, some for HT. Most seem to try to do both and do neither very well, or maybe it's good enough for those that own them. Jack of all trades and master of none...

tonyb

smglbrth wrote: »

Maybe sometimes I think too much?

Heck, most of us do, I know I'm guilty as charged.

Audio over the years has grown and gets a tad more complicated mainly because we ask it to do more today than we did years ago. That also lends itself to the numerous choices one has today in gear as opposed to the past. There is no cut and dry way of doing it anymore. Room sizes are not as standard as they used to be, speaker designs vary greatly, AVR's are more complicated these days, hdmi, SACD, BDP'S,Flac, Dacs, all add to some confusion and getting everything to gel right can be challenging for the fist time audio nut.....or the older audio nut upgrading to todays technology. Speaker placement of the past was explained for the speakers of the past. Today, nothing is written in stone and one only needs to experiment alittle to find what sounds best in your listening environment

My personal journey has led me to believe that buying HT speakers is fine, but they lack some for good serious music listening. If you buy speakers that do music first, chances are you won't be disappointed with them for HT. Not so the other way around.