PSW111 or 505 w/ rti4 fronts?

drdunwoody

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum and could use some advice. I'm setting up my first real home theater. I have typically been a two channell music person but we are watching more shows and movies and stepping up to a 40" Sony Bravia this Christmas. Traditionally, my speakers have always been bigger than my TV. However, I'm joining the modern world and going with a genuin HT system that will sound great (I hope) with a smaller footprint. I purchased the rti4 for fronts with a sc10 center channell and need to pair a sub to it. We watch movies and do some gaming but my number one criterion is good music sound. I'm an electric bass player and I hate boomy bass. I want the bass to be tight and punchy (I listen to a fair amount of modern jazz). I also want to make sure the sub blends well with the rti4 fronts. Polk recommends the PSW111 with the rti4 but I also know how much power bass eats up and was considering the PSW505. 250 vs 150 RMS and 25-160Hz vs 38-250Hz on the 111 and 505 respectively. My concerns...

I like the higher power and lower frequency range of the 505. I see it doesn't go as high (Hz) but I know people typically do their sub crossover around 100Hz so I don't think that is an issue. I want to make sure I don't have any sound hole in the middle between where the Sub and fronts have their sweet spots.

Our family room, which is our HT room and our living room, is about 12 x 24 and we sit facing the closer walls. The children's bedroom is directly above it and I watch a fair amount after they go to bed. Is the lower range of the 505 going to make it more difficult to keep it down at night? Is there a "bedtime" setting on it? I know some Klipsch subs actually do have a "bedtime" setting on them which lowers the bass output without turning the unit off.

I don't really mind the size difference. My main concern is quality sound and durability. I'm hoping both of these would last for years. If it matters, I'm powering this HT with an older Sony STR-DE925 that sends 100 watts to each channell in the 5.0 setup and it has a sub out. I'll be using it for the crossover. Advice appreciated!

Lietuvis91

If your focus is music then stay away from the psw505 and all 12 inch subs in that price range. I personally would look for a nice 10 inch sub, like a psw110, or if you can get a good deal on a dsw500. The psw111 is probably an ok sub for music. I just don't know if it will leave you wanting more for Home Theater.

here are 2 previous threads about these subs. The nod seems to go to the psw110:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?94981-psw111-or-psw110
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?126570-Psw10-vs-psw111-vs-psw110

MADGSF

First welcome to Club Polk.

Next I agree with Lietuvis, I would move up to the the dsw line and I would cross the RTi4 at 80Hz. I have a PSW111 in my office for music and it is fine for the nearfield listening I do there. However with a room that size you will need a more powerful sub especially for HT. With any sub you will have to experiment with placement and crossover frequency to find the best overall sound and if you get a DSW with the wireless option it will make that process much easier!

EndersShadow

Personally I would up the ante and go with a HSU STF-1 or STF-2 and you would be more than happy.

drdunwoody

I probably should have guessed that an audio forum would respond with "upgrade." However, I'm happy to have that feedback now before spending the $. I see the Polk DSW Pro 440wi for $270-$300 and the HSU-F1 is similarly priced at $270. The HSU is listed at half the watts of the DSW but I know that different brands count watts differently and that difference might not be meaningful. As far as price, those would be my limit at the moment but if I'll get a more musical sound of them it will be worth it. Anyone know how th DSW 440 and HSU STF1 compare? Both have 8" woofers. If that wattage difference is real (with similar sensitivity in the speakers) then the Polk seems like the better deal.

EndersShadow

drdunwoody wrote: »

I probably should have guessed that an audio forum would respond with "upgrade." However, I'm happy to have that feedback now before spending the $. I see the Polk DSW Pro 440wi for $270-$300 and the HSU-F1 is similarly priced at $270. The HSU is listed at half the watts of the DSW but I know that different brands count watts differently and that difference might not be meaningful. As far as price, those would be my limit at the moment but if I'll get a more musical sound of them it will be worth it. Anyone know how th DSW 440 and HSU STF1 compare? Both have 8" woofers. If that wattage difference is real (with similar sensitivity in the speakers) then the Polk seems like the better deal.

I believe the HSU STF-1 will go lower and its the more "musical" of the two IMHO.

The HSU manual lists the same dynamic power rating as the Polk (600 watts), its heavier by 13 lbs as well. BUT I have not heard the DSW sub you refer to, nor have I heard the STF-1, I just see it recommended lots as a good budget sub.

If you could wait or look for a used STF-2 I think you would be even better off, but sometimes its harder to do that . You could always call them to see if they have aany B stock too...

Here is a STF-1 on audiogon for a 225: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1329239258&/HSU-STF-1-Subwoofer

drdunwoody

Looking around the net I'm seeing lots of positive comments on both the STF-1 and STF-2. Thanks for the tip! At the moment, I'm leaning in the HSU direction...just not sure which one...

cnh

Welcome to Club Polk!

Your room is on the large size so you'll need more than a PSW111, 110, or 440. The Hsu is probably a good option, also look at the Epik Legend

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html

and/or SVS subs in your price range:

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=14&category_id=7

Also, whatever you do, don't cross those Rtis over at higher than 80hz. After all they can dig that deep and the lower your crossover the less you'll be able to "localize" where the bass is coming from.

Oh, and yes, a Hsu, Epik or SVS is going to slam at night so you may affect your kids sleeping above. Some receivers have night time settings though--check the literature. Of course you can always just back the sub off using its volume setting or the receiver's controls.

cnh

tommyt21

Get the HSU Vtf-2 mk4 it's got the variable tuning,you can adjust the thing to your hearts content. I just got mine and I keep it in movie mode (mass exstension) and the thing sounds absoulutley fan-freaking-tastic. It hits exstremley tight with no boominess and no note over hang. Music sounds so good with this sub even HT Mode. When I get some exstra time, I can't wait to give it a try in music mode to see how much better it sounds. It was well worth the $612(w/shipping) I paid for it, I just wish I hadn't spent $229 on the 505 6 months ago.

EndersShadow

drdunwoody wrote: »

Looking around the net I'm seeing lots of positive comments on both the STF-1 and STF-2. Thanks for the tip! At the moment, I'm leaning in the HSU direction...just not sure which one...

This is how I look at it, you can always turn it down, you cant always turn it up. Plus more headroom is never a bad thing. Also keep in mind the HSU STF-2 is on sale right now so your saving an additional 50 bucks I think.

EndersShadow

cnh wrote: »

Your room is on the large size so you'll need more than a PSW111, 110, or 440. The Hsu is probably a good option, also look at the Epik Legend
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html and/or SVS subs in your price range: http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=14&category_id=7

tommyt21 wrote: »

Get the HSU Vtf-2 mk4 it's got the variable tuning,you can adjust the thing to your hearts content. I just got mine and I keep it in movie mode (mass exstension) and the thing sounds absoulutley fan-freaking-tastic. It hits exstremley tight with no boominess and no note over hang. Music sounds so good with this sub even HT Mode. When I get some exstra time, I can't wait to give it a try in music mode to see how much better it sounds. It was well worth the $612(w/shipping) I paid for it, I just wish I hadn't spent $229 on the 505 6 months ago.

@chn: The HSU is probably going to be the best he can get in his price range (300-400). The SVS would be better, but I think the HSU's are already at the top of his current budget.

@tommy: your doubling what he initially wanted to spend, I dont know if thats an option for the OP given his price range



DRUDUNWOODY: What is your price range so we dont blow your budget? It will help all of us guide you toward good subs in that range. My assumption was something 250-350ish.

tommyt21

EndersShadow wrote: »

@chn: The HSU is probably going to be the best he can get in his price range (300-400). The SVS would be better, but I think the HSU's are already at the top of his current budget.

@tommy: your doubling what he initially wanted to spend, I dont know if thats an option for the OP given his price range

LOL, sorry didn't pay attention to the budget. However I would recommend to the OP that in my situation and from my experience. I have gone through three subs in two years with the same mentality I need something for my budget. If I had been patient in the first place and saved a little more cash and purchased a great sub right of the bat I would have saved myself a lot of heart ache and money. I know i will be happy with the HSU VTF-2 MK4 for a long time its just that good!! It has a cousin the Outlaw lfm-1 plus that goes on sale or b stock in the $400 range, but it doesn't have variable tuning.

My advice save more money and wait for a great sale on one of the big dogs. A sub is a very Important speaker!! Do it right the first time and be happy with no buyers remorse.

PS:with that room size he needs something with alot of output (balls) I dont think those 10" are going to do.

EndersShadow

tommyt21 wrote: »

LOL, sorry didn't pay attention to the budget. However I would recommend to the OP that in my situation and from my experience. I have gone through three subs in two years with the same mentality I need something for my budget. If I had been patient in the first place and saved a little more cash and purchased a great sub right of the bat I would have saved myself a lot of heart ache and money. I know i will be happy with the HSU VTF-2 MK4 for a long time its just that good!! It has a cousin the Outlaw lfm-1 plus that goes on sale or b stock in the $400 range, but it doesn't have variable tuning.

My advice save more money and wait for a great sale on one of the big dogs. A sub is a very Important speaker!! Do it right the first time and be happy with no buyers remorse.

PS:with that room size he needs something with alot of output (balls) I dont think those 10" are going to do.

I agree, but given the kids room is above and he listens after they go to bed, my suggestion if nothing else would be start with one STF-2 (as close to the Listening position as you can get it), and if needed get 2.

He is looking for WHAM, but also the ability to keep it down at night. I think the STF-2 close to the LP (use it as a endtable or something) would give him what he wants at his seating location, and not keep the kids up at night.

That or look into buttkickers installed on the couch as well.

drdunwoody

First, let me say that it cracks me up (in a good way) that I ask about comparing two $200 subs and now I'm being given recommendations for $700 subs! As a musician who is a bit of a gearhead, I appreciate that! However, I don't have that much cash for the sub. $350 is essentially my max point. From what I'm hearing, the HSU STF-1 or STF-2 is the best quality in my price-point. The STF-2 is selling at the "normal" price of $350. From what I've read they go on sale a few times a year. Will I be patient enough to wait for a sale? I'm in PA so I'll have to add a heafty shipping charge to their price as well. Hhmmm... Other recommendations in that price-range are welcome. It sounds like no one is really recommending the Polk subs though.

drdunwoody

I do have the perfect "end table" location for the sub. I can place it directly between the couch and recliner (my seat). Keep in mind I'm running rather small fronts. The sub won't be complimenting towers but bookshelf speakers. Y'all are giving me great info!...really appreciate that. Maybe I should bring my 900 watt bass amp up from the basement along with my twin 15" cabs...

tommyt21

LOL, sorry brotha
Just been down that road before. Check out BIC in that $200 range its suppose to be a tad better than the PSW505. Polk makes great speakers, but great subs come from companies that concentrate just on the sub IMO. What about used gear are you okay with possible checking out some used subs?

drdunwoody

I read that the BIC F12 was better for theater than music. I'm a bass player and a muddy bass will drive me nuts. Given the trade-ff between loud and tight bass, I'll take tight. I'm not against used gear but used electronics do make me nervous. I would consider it though...especially if it were somewhat local (PA).

tommyt21

Check newegg on the weekends, I believe the polk dsw series goes on sale often and i remember some members on here saying they did a good job with music. Sealed subs also are often touted as being better with music and less boomy. That muddy boomy bass is what I got from the PSW505 it drove me nuts! The HSU's are probably the best of all mentioned IMO for music. The first time I heard mine it was kinda weird like where is all the boomy overhang? It was that clear, the kick drum in rock music and country gives me the chills,LOL. Dang it now I just want to go home and listen to music.
Good luck to ya & and what ever you pick post back here your thoughts and impressions on it

drdunwoody

Although no one is really plugging the Polk I do see the DSW550 on the Polk ebay page (refurb) for $315 including shipping. That is comparable (I think) spec-wise with the HSU STF-2 which comes in at $392 (with shipping included). Would love to hear opinions on the Polk DSW series...

drdunwoody

Although I read somewhere that the BIC F12 was "too boomy" the CNet review is very positive saying that with proper placement, they had a very musical sound out of it. Are the BIC and HSU in totally different categories quality-wise? At $230 shipped with a 5 year warranty on the electronics they seem too good to be true. Are they?

Just read a bunch of comparisons. Seems the HSU wins hands-down.

EndersShadow

drdunwoody wrote: »

Although I read somewhere that the BIC F12 was "too boomy" the CNet review is very positive saying that with proper placement, they had a very musical sound out of it. Are the BIC and HSU in totally different categories quality-wise? At $230 shipped with a 5 year warranty on the electronics they seem too good to be true. Are they?

I can tell you from what I read on AVSFORUM lots of folks that purchased BIC subs ended up going with Polk subwoofers, and then onto stuff like the HSU. I think honestly the STF-2 (if you can swing it) or STF-1 will shock you with their sound, and am afraid you would not appreciate the "sloppy" and "boomy" I normally hear associated with BIC stuff. I say this especially since your a trained musician and will notice more than the normal consumer would.

I would spend the cash once now on a good sub so you dont buy one, dont like it, return it (losing cash on shipping), and then move onto to a different one. Plus if you keep it for long enough and dont need to upgrade the cost of it will be pennies on the day. You just have to bite the cost up-front so you can get the long term enjoyment.

Personally even when I had my Monitor 40's upstairs for my 2 channel system, the lowest priced sub I was considering for that system was the STF-1.

I wouldnt put HSU and BIC in the same category by any means. The HSU will be braced better and has a better driver.

tommyt21

I agree with Ender with your budget and what you want the HSU is just the kind of quality your looking for especially for music.

drdunwoody

Thanks again guys! At least, I'm assuming you are guys. I will just do it right the first time and get the HSU. From what y'all are recommending, I'm better off saving and waiting if needed to get the STF-2 over the STF-1 given my room size. Maybe they will go on sale soon...:cheesygrin:
Mind-made-up.

EndersShadow

drdunwoody wrote: »

Thanks again guys! At least, I'm assuming you are guys. I will just do it right the first time and get the HSU. From what y'all are recommending, I'm better off saving and waiting if needed to get the STF-2 over the STF-1 given my room size. Maybe they will go on sale soon...:cheesygrin:
Mind-made-up.

Check out the HSU forum. A real quick check shows a STF-2 being sold by a member for 250. It was posted on November 26th so it might not still be around, but it never hurts to ask.

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=95191

Also I really recommend calling them to see if they have any B-stock/scratch and dent. Worst case they say no, best case you save some cash and aquire it early.

drdunwoody

Thanks again. I'll check that used one out and see where it is. I did check with HSU...they have no B stock at the moment. I'll probably be waiting until the new year to pull the trigger anyway but y'all convinced me that HSU is the way to go. Thanks.

BitenAgain

I think that you will like the HSU. I ended up getting 2 of them in the VTF 15. I had the PSW 505 before that, and it was a decent sub. On certain sound trackss it would distort where there was a lot of quick bass. It was alsoo only semi musical. I would say HSU.

drdunwoody

The VTF-1 is $50 off now which makes it $444 with shipping. The VTF option sounds pretty awesome.

BitenAgain

i think that you will be happy with that. I buy with the intnetion of keeping for years. The only buys i have regretted is when I have cheaped out and not gotten what I have wanted. you might as well get it right te first time. Also, HSU has a 30 day money back guarantee. Try it out like hell for 20 days and if you do not like it, return it and try something else.

Erik Tracy

drdunwoody wrote: »

The VTF-1 is $50 off now which makes it $444 with shipping. The VTF option sounds pretty awesome.

I think we've done our job here, eh guys?:twisted:

The OP started with a budget of about $300 and we've got him up to $444...hehehehe.

I do agree with the recommendations though - open your wallet once and do it right - opening your wallet twice is painful.

EndersShadow

drdunwoody wrote: »

The VTF-1 is $50 off now which makes it $444 with shipping. The VTF option sounds pretty awesome.

That would probably be the last sub you would need for your setup.

Lietuvis91

I think you are making a very good decision. Do it once, do it right ;-)