Definitive Technology BP20 Mod Thread
VR3
Posts: 28,611
Going to be using ESA on the tweeter, SA on the woofer + mills resistors!
I have modded these once before with Auricap and Solen - the Clarity parts are easily triple, quadruple in size...
Should be fun!
Will attach pics of the previous mod! (Was like my third crossover modification I had ever done!)
I have modded these once before with Auricap and Solen - the Clarity parts are easily triple, quadruple in size...
Should be fun!
Will attach pics of the previous mod! (Was like my third crossover modification I had ever done!)
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
Post edited by VR3 on
Comments
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Those aluminum tweeters can be a bit harsh on some material without mods.
I modded the Xovers on my BP-30's with help from Danny Richie/GR Research. I left the originals in place and moved the new ones outboard into wooden boxes. Also rewired the spearkers w/ 16 awg solid core OFC wire. Took awhile to burn in but ultimately vastly improved imaging, and gave a much smoother, more liquid presentation. I like it!"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
The BP30 is on my short list for a second rig...
I would love to own the BP30 or the BP3000TL for a secondary 2 channel rock n roll slammer rig...
The owner wants to keep them internal so I am going to do a point to point crossover and breadboard mount the caps inside the cabinet with probably velcro unless he wants to glue them in there...
Leaving the internal wiring the same...
If you ever see a pair of BP30 in great shape at a steal lmk! - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Wanted to note the BP20 is the original Def Tech line up where it used the Vifa soft dome and vifa (now scan speak midbass). This was before Definitive was well established into the market like they are now.
Still a great speaker but just not all their own designs.
I had a pair in here a while back that my buddy purchased and Erniejade bought from him - by far one of the loudest, gut wrenching speaker I have heard that was not horns...- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Point to point with remote mounted caps... was a bit tricky but this turned out good with no extraneous wire - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Wanted to comment that these crossovers will have arrived and shipped back out in under 20 hours! :-D- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Apparently later on Def Tech switched to a dual board design (a very cheap one at that) - so I basically gutted it completely and started fresh... was interesting to say the least- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Hey, I know this is an old tread..but I was wondering if I could get some help identifying the capacitors on my BP20 crossovers. There is a purple 22uf 100v cap and a yellow 15uf 100v cap. Which one is for the tweeter?
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15- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Thanks!
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Would you happen to know the values of these two capacitors in the BP10? I assume they are for the LF. Is it possible to replace them with a single capacitor of their combined values...or is it more complex than that?
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I could be wrong, but I believe it is a 6.7uf parallel with a 3.3uf to make a 10uf value, but it is better to take a hair dryer to separate them and verify- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Okay gotcha. Thanks again!
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So..turns out they are 10uf and 4.7uf both 100v. My next question may be silly but just wanna be sure if I replaced these two with a single capacitor sufficient to cover their range..does it matter which two of the four mounting holes I use to install it? BTW... I really do appreciate all your help.
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Are they in the same circuit, or two different circuits? I suspect doing your idea will break the gear, but what the heck.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Are they in the same circuit, or two different circuits? I suspect doing your idea will break the gear, but what the heck.
I don't know my guess is that they are. You think I'll break it huh? 🤔..maybe so. Well I'm not trying to do that. Better if I just use two as they did. Lessen the chances of messing it up. -
You would need to trace the circuit. I doubt those are in parallel but I may be wrong- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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You would need to trace the circuit. I doubt those are in parallel but I may be wrong
Well, I definitely dont know. Trace the circuit? Ya know.. Maybe one day when I'm more experienced and understand better I'll be able to flex a little more. In the mean time I'm leaning towards just putting the new ones in the same place.
Oh yeah...saw a mod you did on the BP10B and I'm looking at all those capacitors thinking he didn't just replace the part but added some. Am I correct. How do you know when, why and how to do that. I got too many questions..I'm sure I'm not unique in that and you can't and don't want to just sit and answer them all. It's fascinating. So you also upgrade the internal wires...only 1 contributing factor but how much of difference would you say this makes? -
Can you post a photo of the bottom of the crossover showing the circuit board traces?
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SeleniumFalcon wrote: »Can you post a photo of the bottom of the crossover showing the circuit board traces?
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Good, now by looking alternately on the top and bottom of the board mark the four solder points of the two capacitors.
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SeleniumFalcon wrote: »Good, now by looking alternately on the top and bottom of the board mark the four solder points of the two capacitors.
Ok got that much. Is that all tracing the circuit is? -
You need to use an ohm meter to see if they are the same circuit, or different circuits.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Yes, you can tell from the location of the solder tabs and the traces how things are connected.
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I keep waiting to see the OP disliked DefTech speakers so much he got divorced just to get new in-laws with different speaker preference.I disabled signatures.
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SeleniumFalcon wrote: »Yes, you can tell from the location of the solder tabs and the traces how things are connected.
Well If that's all it is..I knew that. I thought it was something different or more complex. Sorry...guess it was me over thinking. Thanks guys
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I don't think I'll ever get rid of my BP30's. I'm old, so redoing the cross-over isn't needed for me.
I really like their sound as is, being hooked up to my Onkyo tx-ds898 receiver. I've never heard them hooked up to anything else except to a Yamaha receiver for a few seconds when I bought them. I did have them hooked up while the receiver had the "sub on" engaged. That limited the bass that was going to them. About a year ago or more, we had a power outage from a Hurricane for 3 days. Afterward, I had to reprogram the settings and found the sub setting. After turning the sub-out off, the bass really came out bigtime.
I sold a set of Polk SDA 1C's not ever hearing their true bass output because of this receiver's sub setting being in the "on" position. I didn't know what I had.
The BP30s in the picture below "were" cramped, now they're not.
I turn them on every time I step into my cottage.
I'll bring them out into the room more when I make more space.
I forget what was playing but I liked it.
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
So the original BP series... (6/8/10/20) used off the shelf Vifa drivers and fairly basic crossovers. They sounded good but the later 6b/8b/10b/30 were a far superior product using Definitive drivers and far more sophisticated crossovers.
Not to discount the earlier stuff, but they are just not as good as the later models.
The Bp10b was produced by Definitive for over ten years... That should say something!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
For comparison, this is a bp30 build I did many years ago
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
NICE.
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
I don't think I'll ever get rid of my BP30's. I'm old, so redoing the cross-over isn't needed for me.
I really like their sound as is, being hooked up to my Onkyo tx-ds898 receiver. I've never heard them hooked up to anything else except to a Yamaha receiver for a few seconds when I bought them. I did have them hooked up while the receiver had the "sub on" engaged. That limited the bass that was going to them. About a year ago or more, we had a power outage from a Hurricane for 3 days. Afterward, I had to reprogram the settings and found the sub setting. After turning the sub-out off, the bass really came out bigtime.
I sold a set of Polk SDA 1C's not ever hearing their true bass output because of this receiver's sub setting being in the "on" position. I didn't know what I had.
The BP30s in the picture below "were" cramped, now they're not.
I turn them on every time I step into my cottage.
I'll bring them out into the room more when I make more space.
I forget what was playing but I liked it.
Yeah, I hear this alot about the BP30's. Most owners I come across feel the same as you. like..nope ain't letting these go. Maybe that's why I don't find many for sale often. During the time I was really searching for them..they'd pop up usually not in my area and the seller wouldn't ship them.
The monitor40 and 60 series ii were what I consider to be my first real speakers. Had no idea that a system could sound the way these did in my place. But I always wanted to try Definitive's speakers. I read alot about them..many reviews of praise while others the opposite or indifferent. I started my Definitive experience with the BP6B'S and imo they were astounding for their size and price. From there I moved to the original BP10's as the Polks made me really like soft dome tweeters.
Interviews from a few speaker designers also inspired my component upgrade. Sandy Gross (Definitive Technology
founder) himself being one of them. He spoke of how companies design products at a particular price point. In his case always seeking to balance value and performance to sort of make high end more accessible as he would say.
The BP10's being no different were designed at a certain price point. Though sounding good were also had me assessing where the compromises were made. Usually between three areas. The drivers, the crossover components or the cabinets. I would argue that the drivers and cabinets in the BP series are places where the least compromises were made. While the crossovers though sufficient for function are considerably cheaper. From which I reasoned, that higher grade parts would get them closer to how they might sound if the price point were just a little higher.
That said, I do not really consider what I've done to be a real mod or redo. I have simply used higher quality parts of the same values. The crossover design is still basically the same. Oddly enough the overall sound character of the speakers is maintained only making them clearer versions of themselves. I quite enjoy their sound and even before the upgrade I had not experienced some of the more negative things that have been said about bipole speakers. Based on the bad comments..I was expecting the speakers to sound horrible. Like the equivalent of smeared paint on a canvas. But I wanted to see for myself. On the contrary I was/am very impressed by both the sound and the simple clean look that can easily pass for a speaker that was made a few years ago and not 1990.
