Remains of 274 US troops dumped in landfill......what a wonderful military we have

Syndil

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Would your attitude still be the same if this was done to someone you deeply cared about? I am willing to be that answer would be a big NO!

I already said I wouldn't care if my own ashes were dumped in a landfill. I do not attach the same stigma to the word "landfill" that you apparently do.

evhudsons

Toolfan66 wrote: »

And soon it will be illegal to wave the American flag like prayer in schools!!!

Soon it will be illegal to say "The United States", it will have to be third person referred to as "the state of being part of a larger group told what to do in any situation"

I'm sort of kidding, but we are selling our rights along with our children's future.

I'm not political, but ........it's the truth

stuwee

nooshinjohn , sorry for my offensive post, but I stand by it. Get over it please, you don't have a lock on patriotism, we all know what is meant by what happened.

gudnoyez

I proudly served my country, and so did others that post here on our forum. I think that what was done to these cremated remains shows the disrespect for those that did sacrifice themselves, for the freedom we all enjoy today. I think that anyone that was part of this decision, should put on the uniform and do a tour of duty over there and see what its all about, could'nt they have buried them in Arlington. Shame on those that made this decision.

Tour2ma

tony millard wrote: »

The ashes should have respectfully been dispersed somewhere...

Agree 100%... What was done is disgraceful. All those responsible for the decisions as well as the actions that led to this story have acted dishonorably. They should all be prosecuted and drummed out of the service, i.e., dishonorably discharged. Throwing up a protective wall at the Airman or Airman 1st level should not be tolerated.

The impact of this "dumping" is not upon the dead; it's upon the living. How many members of the military have learned of this practice and have come away feeling "disposable"? Even one would be too many. How many vets feel pain at the thought of fallen comrades having been literally thrown out with garbage? It seems we have some here in this thread. How many potential recruits for our all volunteer military were on the fence, but have now decided, "F*** it"?

It's easy to say how much we honor the military... how we value their service... and say "Thank you for your service", but where the rubber meets the road are actions, deeds. And while there are deeds a plenty that back up the words, they are often small scale, under publicized efforts. All it takes is one headline misdeed to negate the lot of them.

Toolfan66 wrote: »

And soon it will be illegal to wave the American flag like prayer in schools!!!

FYI... School prayer is not illegal. While organized, public school prayer has been ruled unconstitutional, individual prayer is permitted so long as it does not interfere with the primary functions of the school.

BeefJerky

stuwee wrote: »

Although I might not have the right answer, this has been going on for centuries from every country in bad times...no excuse I know, but let's cut some slack to the folks in charge, there are many, many reasons why this might have happened, we weren't there, it's not like we all haven't had them in our thoughts and prayers all this time, that means more than where the body (just a shell of who they were here) wound up. Sorry, I never understood this whole body respect thing, it's just a body, the person is no longer with it.

I agree. After death it is just an empty vessel, nothing more. This is similar to an old abandoned car in my opinion; and no one complains about an abandoned car being sent to the landfill. It is important how the person is treated while alive, not after death.

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Ashes are still remains of a human being. Would your attitude still be the same if this was done to someone you deeply cared about? I am willing to be that answer would be a big NO!

Actually, my attitude would be no different. This goes for family, friends, as well as myself. As far as I'm concerned (if it was legal), when I die you can just throw me head-first into the trash can and leave it on the curb for the trash men. I'm no longer alive or using the vessel they call my body, so it doesn't matter to me.

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

Resignations of those responsible, military or civilian, would not be appropriate, IMO.

No, the appropriate action would be along the lines that I envisioned for those responsible for the Walter Reed Hospital "Let "Em Care for Themselves" disgrace: High noon, middle of Pennsylvania Aveneu, blindfold (if they wish), and a firing squad.

Bad, good, or indifferent on the police actions in the Middle East, those who went and came home in a body bag or urn deserve better than a GD dump.

Nobody to claim the body/ashes ? Then GD treat them with twice the respect.

Wow, talk about a monumental overreaction. The calls for resignation that some suggest are overreacting in my opinion, but this is a whole other level. You seriously think that people should be killed over this? It sounds like you care more about dead bodies than you do about living human beings; now that is a real tragedy.

tonyb

So, I guess to some of you, that cemetaries should just go away and dump everyone into the trash heap when they die ? I might be over reaching with that statement, but if you can't understand what the outcry is about over this, then you don't understand why we have cemetaries to begin with.

I find it somewhat disturbing that we have a single unknown soldiers grave under 24 hour guard, while others be it if only just parts, are dumped in landfills. Call it what you will, medical waste, whatever, is it so much to ask that all parts of those who serve be buried together ? Cremate the parts but at least put them all together in a single plot.

janmike

A very sad story.

BeefJerky

tonyb wrote: »

So, I guess to some of you, that cemetaries should just go away and dump everyone into the trash heap when they die ? I might be over reaching with that statement, but if you can't understand what the outcry is about over this, then you don't understand why we have cemetaries to begin with.

Actually, you are right on that one, I really don't get the point of cemeteries. The body that you are "honoring" there is just that, a body and nothing more. It is no longer the person you knew when they were alive. I think it really boils down to people's fear of death, and their unwillingness to let go and accept it.

Keiko wrote: »

People like you just don't get it and never will. Your analogy comparing a fallen Soldier to that of an abandoned car is as much of a disrespect as what happened at that landfill. The real tragedy is these guys fought and died so asshats like you have the freedom to post such absurd comments.

Yes, there are those who fought and died for my right to post these comments, and I am thankful for that. I truly respect the persons who did that, however, I cannot bring myself to care about a dead body. A dead body is just an empty vessel, it is no longer the person.

And I stand by my analogy.

DMara

I don't care much about where the remains should be dumped, but our policy got to be of constant values. If we followed Islamic law to deal with Osama Bin Laden's body, why couldn't we deal with our soldiers' cremated remains by the American value? We have always given the fallen plenty of respect, so do the same for our soldiers who didn't have any relative or their relatives ignored them. After all, they're the one who sacrificed their lives to protect America.
This is just a lazy act, there's no way to argue for it.

Systems

Actually, you are right on that one, I really don't get the point of cemeteries. The body that you are "honoring" there is just that, a body and nothing more. It is no longer the person you knew when they were alive.

A dead body is just an empty vessel, it is no longer the person.

Words of wisdom.
I am PRETTY sure everyone understands the concept.
The main reason they exist is that people show more respect for their loved ones than you do.

I find flowers on my mothers grave routinely that I have no idea of their origin.
Shows she earned the respect of others besides her family members.
You will never know in life the people you have touched.
That is determined after death.

BeefJerky

pepster wrote: »

Words of wisdom.
I am PRETTY sure everyone understands the concept.

It seems that some do not.

The main reason they exist is that people show more respect for their loved ones than you do.

Wow, that's a hell of an assumption. First, you don't know me, so you have no idea just how much respect I show towards my loved ones. I simply choose to show them respect while they are alive so that they can actually accept it and appreciate it. Second, this kind of comment shows your lack of respect for others who simply have an opinion that differs from your own.

You will never know in life the people you have touched.
That is determined after death.

I couldn't disagree more. If people can't, or don't, show you how much they care for and respect you while you're alive, then it is pointless to do so after death. Besides, once you're dead, you may never know of their after death honors.

Systems

People like you just don't get it and never will.

Keiko NAILED it!

Evrythngmatters

Most here have the right idea. Just a little respect would have gone a long way. No matter if it is just a "part" or ashes they should be treated with respect. Hell, most here would lose their mind if someone for no other reason than to be an **** knocked off your equipment onto the floor and it broke into bits and pieces. Why would it matter, it's not mine, why should I care. For those of you that have the, 'I could care less attitude' pm me your address so I can come over and randomly throw away your bits and pieces of gear into the dump after I smash it all over your GD floor. Then maybe you will understand.

nooshinjohn

Evrythngmatters wrote: »

For those of you that have the, 'I could care less attitude' pm me your address so I can come over and randomly throw away your bits and pieces of gear into the dump after I smash it all over your GD floor. Then maybe you will understand.

Yep.... after all, if it don't work, it's just an empty shell, so who cares.


Tell me where to meet, I will supply the sledgehammer.

obieone

Everyone, from the OIC on down to the butterbars, associated with this, should be given a GD, and their VA benefits revoked.

And, IF, it's found out, that this was solely a civilian gaff, then those people should be fired, and whatever union pension $$$ they WERE entitled to, should be donated to the DAV, VFW, WWP, etc.

Systems

Just like peeing on an

old abandoned car.

WilliamM2

Evrythngmatters wrote: »

Most here have the right idea. Just a little respect would have gone a long way. No matter if it is just a "part" or ashes they should be treated with respect.

Agreed.

Hell, most here would lose their mind if someone for no other reason than to be an **** knocked off your equipment onto the floor and it broke into bits and pieces. Why would it matter, it's not mine, why should I care. For those of you that have the, 'I could care less attitude' pm me your address so I can come over and randomly throw away your bits and pieces of gear into the dump after I smash it all over your GD floor. Then maybe you will understand.

I have absolutely no idea what that has to do with the topic at hand.

sucks2beme

Bottom line in ethics. If what you do today ends up on the front page next day
how do you think it would go over?
If everybody looked at things like that, crap like this wouldn't happen. I understand
it was body pieces and their families had passed on dealing with it. I also understand
that most likely there wasn't much money to deal with it. But just a little thinking
would have made this a non-issue. Too many pass on doing the right thing for
taking the path of least resistance. I don't give a crap what happens to my body after death
But just a little respect would be nice. And I plan to do the same for any one else's remains.

dorokusai

Regardless of the stance on what your body is after you perish, the disposal of the remains could have been handled better and with more respect to all the parties involved. If even one family has some serious faith issues, then it should be respected.

I don't believe in god or any of that crap but I most certainly wouldn't disrespect the wishes or just general compassion of ensuring that the remains of a loved one wasn't at the very least, taken to something other than a landfill. I'm not quite sure how someone who doesn't care about the body or afterlife would be so cold and unfeeling of others, regardless of your position.

I'm being burned like a Viking when I move on to whatever place it is, or to nothing at all....means absolutely nothing to me aside from I'd like to be on a pire, as all warriors should be. After that, party on folks, its on me....no fee at the door and bar is open.

tonyb

Well, if ya don't mind passing on alittle early Mark....I am kinda thirsty.

stuwee

tonyb wrote: »

Well, if ya don't mind passing on alittle early Mark....I am kinda thirsty.

Here, here, and a couple of lusty wenches wouldn't be askin' too much now would it laddie?? :razz:

Systems

After that, party on folks, its on me....no fee at the door and bar is open.

I smell a get together!
I'll bring the cables!:cheesygrin:

BeefJerky

Evrythngmatters wrote: »

Most here have the right idea. Just a little respect would have gone a long way. No matter if it is just a "part" or ashes they should be treated with respect. Hell, most here would lose their mind if someone for no other reason than to be an **** knocked off your equipment onto the floor and it broke into bits and pieces. Why would it matter, it's not mine, why should I care. For those of you that have the, 'I could care less attitude' pm me your address so I can come over and randomly throw away your bits and pieces of gear into the dump after I smash it all over your GD floor. Then maybe you will understand.

This is a poor analogy. What you are describing boils down to disrespect for the living, and I do have a large problem with that. If a living person cares about something, then no, you should not damage or destroy it.

However, after I'm dead, if no one else claims my audio gear, you have my full permission to come and destroy it; I'd be dead, and wouldn't care.

Keiko wrote: »

So, I'm walking along past a cemetery one day and all of a sudden, I gotta pee, real bad. I piss on one of your loved one's grave & you wouldn't give a s#!t, right? They're gone and all that's left is a decomposed corpse in the ground. Really, I mean, why would you care that I just pissed all over your mother, father, son's or daughter's grave? They're not here anymore and when ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

Me? No, I wouldn't care. However, I suspect that the persons other living relatives would care, in which case, you would be disrespecting the living.

sucks2beme wrote: »

Bottom line in ethics. If what you do today ends up on the front page next day
how do you think it would go over?
If everybody looked at things like that, crap like this wouldn't happen. I understand
it was body pieces and their families had passed on dealing with it. I also understand
that most likely there wasn't much money to deal with it. But just a little thinking
would have made this a non-issue. Too many pass on doing the right thing for
taking the path of least resistance.

This is a very interesting point. In this day and age of a highly interconnected media-centric society, things you do could end up being known to many. It is something to think about.

dorokusai wrote: »

Regardless of the stance on what your body is after you perish, the disposal of the remains could have been handled better and with more respect to all the parties involved. If even one family has some serious faith issues, then it should be respected.

I don't believe in god or any of that crap but I most certainly wouldn't disrespect the wishes or just general compassion of ensuring that the remains of a loved one wasn't at the very least, taken to something other than a landfill. I'm not quite sure how someone who doesn't care about the body or afterlife would be so cold and unfeeling of others, regardless of your position.

This is a very good point as well. If what you are doing to the dead bodies is against the wishes of their families, then you are in fact disrespecting the living family members. I will reiterate that I do have a problem with disrespecting the living.

That being said, the article gave the impression that the family members did not want anything to do with the dead bodies. So, if the families didn't care, then I'm not so sure it would be considered as disrespecting the living. However, that all depends on how accurate the article actually is; we all know that the media likes to sensationalize things.

BeefJerky

Keiko wrote: »

That's nice, because quite frankly, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire nor give 2 s#!ts about it, jerkyboy.

Thank you.

Keiko wrote: »

No, you're completely missing the point.

I get the point - we have differing opinions, and that is okay.

Did you ever serve in the military and wear a uniform? I'd bet not. I served for 6 years and although I didn't know any of these people, they are still my comrades and brothers in arms. We all took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I have not served in the military, however my father did, so I have some knowledge of how the military works. I am also very thankful for what you and my father have done in serving this country. I know without people like you, we wouldn't have the freedoms that we do.

To my knowledge, that oath is for life and something you couldn't possibly understand.

Probably not.

Regardless if their families didn't care or if they had no family at all it's still a disgrace. And since you claim to have this respect for the living, hence where you've missed the point, what these idiots did when they dumped the remains of these soldiers in a land fill, disrespected every Veteran, dead or alive that ever wore a uniform. Same as your ignorant analogies and uneducated opinions. The main issue is, these fallen Soldiers were in fact disrespected. Disrespect for the uniform, flag, freedom and county for which they fought and died for. They deserved better. I don't expect you to understand, because of your ignorance. Again, you just don't get it and never will.

I think what amuses me the most about this is that you are one of the most outspoken and opinionated individuals on this board; however, it is clear that you have a real problem with respecting other people's opinions if they differ from your own. How do you expect other people to respect your opinions if you can't reciprocate?

BeefJerky

Keiko wrote: »

Wrong again! I just don't respect your asinine comments or opinions on this subject.

Thanks for proving my point.

You don't have a freakin' clue as to why this is wrong which makes any more exchanges pointless. I'm out.

Typical. Rather than try to educate me, or even just agree to disagree, you tuck your tail between your legs and back out.

Evrythngmatters

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea what that has to do with the topic at hand.

An off the wall analogy.... and most of the time I have no idea what I'm talking about either.:cheesygrin:
Gotta read between the lines sometimes with me. Just saying I bet those that don't get it would get it if it was their stereo gear.

deronb1

How we treat our dead says a lot about our society and how the life of the deceased was lived. The soldiers don't care, obviously, but the psychological reprocussions for anyone who has lost someone in battle must be overwhelming. If these 274 individuals were deviants, crackheads and bums, then not too many people would care. These were protecters of our nation, and they and their families deserve much better.

This just opens wounds that are trying to heal.

HHStuart

tonyb wrote: »

That says it all right there.
The least they could do is give these cremated remains a specific burial plot, after all, how much room does ashes take up ? To dump them with the garbage is just plain disrespectfull to our country and those soldiers. The fact that some may be just body parts is irrelevant. A simple 6 foot grave can hold alot of ashes.

+1 on that

mark090852

It is hard to believe that this could happen after the soldiers giving all that they gave.